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View Full Version : Is this Jamaican Govt worth all our tax money?



BroNey
09-09-2005, 12:48 AM
I personally wonder about this on a daily basis. I shudder every month when I see how much money is taken from me in taxes, for what?!!! I cant walk on the road in peace or even lock myself in my home without wondering if I'll be shot, killed etc. The roads leave so very much to be desired and the ten million street people is heart breaking. In my opinion they are taking our money to fatten their own account while we dont even have enough after a very hard month of work to open one. More than time for a CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SistahD
09-09-2005, 12:53 AM
Greetings (((BroNey))) Welcome to ja.com

I'm going to transfer your question to the News Forum... trust me, there will be plenty of responses and dialogue down there!

-----> transferring...

Q3210
09-09-2005, 11:29 AM
A change by a poll or a change by force...or by the will of the people?
I take it first that by the will of the people there will be change.
But what exactly is the will of the people regarding change of govt.?

swingcat
09-09-2005, 02:08 PM
We all know there is very little opportunity to get a job that will support your family on the Island. The Island needs infrastructure which will provide jobs for anyone willing to work. If we could get rid of the corruptions Jamaica would be the best place in the world to live. PJ and his cronies have it all and are making sure none trickles down to you and me. Lets vote them all out and hope for the most honest and caring. How about a woman ? Portia? We just need honesty and we will prosper.

Jamaicamiss
09-09-2005, 02:20 PM
I agree with you that something has to be done. i spent six months over there at the beginning of the year and saw my money go out heavily for GCT (government consumption tax) and didn't see much done in the line of improvements. Only when the Jamaican people began to loudly voice their opinion about a bad road or bad situation in government did I see a very small change. Like they would fix a few potholes.

By the way I had to have 2 front end alignments in 6 months for my car because of the deep potholes that you can't see until your car has gone down into one.

I have studied the newspaper, watched the news and talked to people about this and no one knows what to do. There definitely has to be corruption in some form for all the money going out and the common people seeing nothing in return.

The police and fire buildings are a disgrace. The police uniforms are shabby, i.e buttonholes torn. I might add that all the police personnel I have been in close contact with are neat and clean. ( I get stopped a lot in their road checks.) The tax offices are passable but work inadequately with their personnel, who by the way really want to help you, but are limited in what they can do.

The schools are a big disgrace. I have been working with one of them, pouring money into much needed repairs, equipment and supplies. I was told they receive $4000Ja (approx $67 US) a year from the Ministry of Education. That wouldn't have even fixed the leaky roof.

I would also like some answers as to what we can do over there. Anyone got suggestions?

Sinco01
09-09-2005, 02:50 PM
get rid of the corrupt pols and businessmen
change how govt operates
cut govt expenditures
cut civil service
install accountability
spend on improving water .. agri .. infrastructure
including govt buildings & schools
cut imports by half
export more
look for non-traditional markets

adopt a school ... works too

Wardob
09-09-2005, 07:50 PM
“Get rid of the corrupt pols and businessmen”
How?

“Change how govt operates”
How?

”Cut govt expenditures”
Who should do this?

“Cut civil service”
What area?

“Install accountability”
How?

“Spend on improving water .. agri .. infrastructure
including govt buildings & schools”
These fall under expenditure, which you suggest should be cut

”Cut imports by half”
Even the essential?

“Export more”
More of what?

“Look for non-traditional markets”
And after they are found, what next?

“Adopt a school ... works too”
Agree about the school, but “work” adoption?

Q3210
09-10-2005, 01:58 AM
With bleach and dettol...How things, WardoB?

e. luce
09-10-2005, 04:56 PM
Wardob:

Export more”
More of what?
There was lot's to export at one time due to the IMF agricultural production is almost non existence now, I saw the change and it is really sad to see people loose their dignity and become pawns of the all powerful. I went back for a visit a couple of years ago and the supermarkets were packed up with all foreign goods, much more then when I left in the 90’s.

e. luce
09-10-2005, 05:00 PM
:bigup:
Jamaica would be the best place in the world to live. PJ and his cronies have it all and are making sure none trickles down to you and me. Get rid of the Fat Cats and it would be paradise on earth once again.

swingcat
09-11-2005, 12:20 AM
Vote everyone out. Start anew..........

barosa
09-11-2005, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by WCL:

I went back for a visit a couple of years ago and the supermarkets were packed up with all foreign goods, much more then when I left in the 90’s.

I am not surprised. Jamaicans have always wanted farrin tings ova our sintin dem, an 'specially dose from 'MERICA. Now a days, comming from farrin not good enuff unless dem is name bran. A so wi tan, wi want di bestest.

-----------------
Modesty is not only an ornament, but also a guard to virtue : Joseph Addison

e. luce
09-11-2005, 02:06 PM
Barosa:


A so wi tan, wi want di bestest.
If they would only realize that they have the best, the best climate, the best soil, the best water, the list goes on and on; they have the best of what is truly important. Through contact with tourists they don’t see what they have right before their eyes. The Rastafarians seem to get it but the rest of the population is lost in commercialism. Jamaica has it all - too bad so much red eye negates this.

Q3210
09-11-2005, 02:28 PM
Jamaica lost in commercialism...America lost in consumerism....not even one tele-evangelist on hand in the post Katrina trauma...

e. luce
09-11-2005, 03:04 PM
Q:


Jamaica lost in commercialism...America lost in consumerism....not even one tele-evangelist on hand in the post Katrina trauma...
How about Katrina Karma, we sure are having a lot of natural disasters lately. :think:

Jamaicamiss
09-12-2005, 01:22 PM
The ideas are good for change, but I wonder if anyone can tell me what I as an individual living over there 6 months at a time can do to make the country a better place for it's people. I have tried to do a few things but I don't know if this is making a dent in the problems.

Kumtecky
09-12-2005, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Jamaica Miss:
The ideas are good for change, but I wonder if anyone can tell me what I as an individual living over there 6 months at a time can do to make the country a better place for it's people. I have tried to do a few things but I don't know if this is making a dent in the problems. Keep doing what you are doing, no matter how small you feel the deed is or how few it helps you are doing your part...more ppl have to want to help and extend themselves and want better for themselves as well as others.

barosa
09-12-2005, 03:41 PM
It's strange! Nat one a unu xpress a desire fi get rid of all di guns in the hands of criminals an de youte dem. All criminals an murdarers fi lack up, or lack away 'cause nuff a dem roaming all ova di island not apprehended, looting an killing. How are they gonna entice returnees to go back to Jamaica when dem know dat dem wont be safe. I know a few who went down an dem haffi lif up an get out! HOMELAND SECURITY is #1 priority in Jamaica, everyting else will fall in line... Trust mi!

------------------
We cannot always build the future for our youth, but we can build our youth for the future : FDR

mangoskin
09-12-2005, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by barosa:
Originally posted by WCL:

I went back for a visit a couple of years ago and the supermarkets were packed up with all foreign goods, much more then when I left in the 90’s.

I am not surprised. Jamaicans have always wanted farrin tings ova our sintin dem, an 'specially dose from 'MERICA. Now a days, comming from farrin not good enuff unless dem is name bran. A so wi tan, wi want di bestest.

-----------------
Modesty is not only an ornament, but also a guard to virtue : Joseph Addison I never understood this, because the Jamaican fruits for example, to me, are superior to the foreign ones (give me mangoes :loveout: , tamrinds, guineps, june plums, otaheiti apples and on and on :love: ANY day over apples, grapes and peaches)

mangoskin
09-12-2005, 04:23 PM
..but back to taxes..isn't the $$ going to mostly service foreign debt??

Dr.Dudd
09-12-2005, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by mangoskin:
..but back to taxes..isn't the $$ going to mostly service foreign debt?? Let's assume that is the truth and it is the problem,what proposal do you have to selve it?
Though the majority of Jamaica government dent is locally sourced.eve those that were sourced in the US were promptly resold to locals at a premium.

Sinco01
09-12-2005, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Wardob:
“Get rid of the corrupt pols and businessmen”
How? independent oversight .. prosecute those who offer/take bribes

“Change how govt operates”
How? - accountability .. meetings with local councils .. monthly

”Cut govt expenditures”
Who should do this? - balanced budgets .. limit spending on projects that have gone over budget

“Cut civil service”
What area? - all .. 30% reduction

“Install accountability”
How? - An ombudsman type office to investigate complaints against govt/ministers and reccommend
and oversee implementing change or charges.

“Spend on improving water .. agri .. infrastructure
including govt buildings & schools”
These fall under expenditure, which you suggest should be cut - yes but in other ares .. maybe should say .. more efficient handling of expenditures in those ares

”Cut imports by half”
Even the essential? - yes ... btw what would you consider essential

“Export more”
More of what? - everything ... improve agri (irrigation - terracing - dams/resevoirs) and manu .. update sugar/canning factories/electricity/cement

“Look for non-traditional markets”
And after they are found, what next? - develop the confidence and trust that we can/will fill all orders

“Adopt a school ... works too”
Agree about the school, but “work” adoption? - /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif .. that could be "busy as a bee"

Sinco01
09-12-2005, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by lover of jamaica land:
Vote everyone out. Start anew.......... dat mi seh .. get rid of dem :think:

Sinco01
09-12-2005, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by barosa:
It's strange! Nat one a unu xpress a desire fi get rid of all di guns in the hands of criminals an de youte dem. All criminals an murdarers fi lack up, or lack away 'cause nuff a dem roaming all ova di island not apprehended, looting an killing. How are they gonna entice returnees to go back to Jamaica when dem know dat dem wont be safe. I know a few who went down an dem haffi lif up an get out! HOMELAND SECURITY is #1 priority in Jamaica, everyting else will fall in line... Trust mi!

------------------
We cannot always build the future for our youth, but we can build our youth for the future : FDR dat is why mi first proposal was to get rid of the corruption up top ... dats where it (de gunman support) start

Dr.Dudd
09-12-2005, 06:35 PM
Balamce budget is nonsense,propogated be those with unterior motives,to keep people down.
Thi sis not a jab at you Sionco,I think that you have good intensions. You just don't know.

Dr.Dudd
09-12-2005, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by barosa:
It's strange! Nat one a unu xpress a desire fi get rid of all di guns in the hands of criminals an de youte dem. All criminals an murdarers fi lack up, or lack away 'cause nuff a dem roaming all ova di island not apprehended, looting an killing. How are they gonna entice returnees to go back to Jamaica when dem know dat dem wont be safe. I know a few who went down an dem haffi lif up an get out! HOMELAND SECURITY is #1 priority in Jamaica, everyting else will fall in line... Trust mi!


------------------
We cannot always build the future for our youth, but we can build our youth for the future : FDR ..and after you lock up all these 'criminals',dou you think the numbers will be reduced?
How do you suggest they disarm the criminals with the guns
Do you think that it is the guns make the driminals?Do you think that bt removing them,the production of criminals will just stop?

barosa
09-13-2005, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Dr.Dudd:

..and after you lock up all these 'criminals',dou you think the numbers will be reduced?
How do you suggest they disarm the criminals with the guns
Do you think that it is the guns make the driminals?Do you think that bt removing them,the production of criminals will just stop?


It is noteworthy that you acknowledge that there is a "production" of CRIMINALS in Jamaica... I will agree with you doc, that rounding up all known/suspected criminals and relieving them of their guns however they go about it, wont stop the PRODUCTION of criminals. But those removed or locked away wont be around creating the on-going mayhem. `This will provide the opportunity to concentrate on the production of those comming behind before they become hardened and professional.

We deal with each new production by rooting out and incarcerating the worst among the lot sending them away to be re-habilitated. With each production, the job for the Security Forces will become less onerous, less difficult until they get a handle on the situation. Being draconian with a "no-nonsense" approach while taking into consideration the vulnerability of the YOUNG who naturally feeds the production. A Government Program to be established for training these would be "criminals" would deter them from becomming fodder for the "criminal production" system.

Why do we have to have an ongoing "production of criminals" in Jamaica as if it was one of our sectors of our island production capacity as it is for agricultural/food and industrial productions. We really do not need this type of production and WE the people of Jamaica through our Government should STOP IT... How would I suggest the dis-arming of the criminals with guns?, I believe that would be best dealt with in another thread.

-----------------
We cannot always build the future for our youth, but we can build our youth for the future : FDR

BroNey
09-14-2005, 01:50 AM
Feel free to educate us Dr.Dudd. That is the only way to help our people - with the knowledge of what is going on and possible options to remedy them.

swingcat
09-14-2005, 09:37 PM
If Jamaica wants American tourism dollars they better get rid of the gun and crime. There are many safe places to spend our $$$. What a shame, Jamaica may be the most beautiful Island in the world.

swingcat
09-14-2005, 09:41 PM
If the corrupt Jamaican gov't with PJ would cooperate with the US in the effort to rid the world of crack cocaine, I know the World would forgive much of the debt that Jamaica is servicing with interest only and crippling their economy

Dr.Dudd
09-15-2005, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by lover of jamaica land:
If the corrupt Jamaican gov't with PJ would cooperate with the US in the effort to rid the world of crack cocaine, I know the World would forgive much of the debt that Jamaica is servicing with interest only and crippling their economy You really know what you talking about though?
What more cooperation you wany the Jamaican government do with the US.
The US won't even agree to forgive nothing but those debts that they can't collect. Forgice debt? Let me tell that it was the US that objected to other countries that was willing to forgive the debts of the third world. ...,and the same US that is still is dradibg it's feet,because some of the other countries don not want thes poor countries ton use the money they recieve to pay US debts. OS just talk a good talk as far as debt is concerned.

Dr.Dudd
09-15-2005, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by lover of jamaica land:
If Jamaica wants American tourism dollars they better get rid of the gun and crime. There are many safe places to spend our $$$. What a shame, Jamaica may be the most beautiful Island in the world. Getv this straight,Jamaica will have guncrimes as lkong as the society creates people who have no real means of surviving but dishonesty.
It is simple There ius no ridding the country of gun crimes,as long as they are locked out oof the economy and have a brain.
Rven if they take wayt all the guns the will resort to other methods of killing like blow guns with poison darts. Or fish guns. Jamaican fishermen manufacture some of the most lethal fish guns there are. It is not about riffing the country of the guns,but giving the peoiple a legal means of making a living wage.
Not J2400 dollars (US$40)aweek either. Ther is no reason why in a country like Jamaica where many earn some of the highest incmes in the world the people that is used to create those incomes,should be asked to live like that withou any hope.
As stated in Maslows laws,these people will become violent and even without the guns they will develope more lethal weaponsto survive.

swingcat
09-19-2005, 12:46 PM
DR Dudd: You are 100% right. The US is trying to stop other countries from helping you with your debt. However they have made it clear as Colin Powell (born in Jamaica) said. "Jamaica government will not get any help until they make an effort to stop the illegal crack and cocaine trade. No body gets anything for nothing. If your government is not willing to crack down on the gun smuggling and drugs (not marijuana) they cannot see any reason to help a corrupt government that will not help its own people.
The US could be your best friend but the powers to be in Kingston like the corruption and it is up to you the people who vote to change the system.
Jamaica is losing lots of tourism of US dollars now and it is going to get alot worse if Jamaica does not do something to show the world they are trying to help their own people. Vote out the corruption. A new broom sweeps clean. Remember the US loves Jamaica. How does the current people in power show their affection for the US and all the dollars they spend on your Island. They show the US nothing but contempt and unwilling to change so that the people of Jamaica will always be supressed by the corruption of your government and the people will not vote them out.

Dr.Dudd
09-20-2005, 03:00 AM
That is pure propoganda.
Colin pPowell's words are not to be trusted. Just because he say something does not mean much
As for promise of aid. What about the millions they suppose to give to Africa for AIDS?
A promise is a comfort to a fool.
Everytime you talk about loosing tourist dollars. What tourist dollars Jamaica is loosing?
Tourist dollars won't make up fpor the savings they want Jamaica to forgo on their energy bill.
Th epeople of the US may love Jamaica,but the administration jus see it as another place with too many blacks,and as a result must mot prosper.
Did you know that all the other countries that re wealthier than Jamaica,the black population has a much lower level of proerty pwnership than Jamaica, as poor as it is?

Most people wko talk about how Jamaica was wealthy some time ago. I can tell them that the black people in Jamaica was never wealthier than.what is the use your country is rich if you live like a scabenger?
When jamaica got independence 43 years ago black literacy was less than 50%.


I will bet you that there are as much corruption in the US government and posssibly more,with all the billions that goes to companies owned by leaders.

swingcat
09-22-2005, 02:31 PM
DrDudd: I trust Powells words and the intentions of the US regarding helping Jamaica if they will change to a honest government and cooperate with Drug enforcement efforts. Your surely right there is corruption is the US. Your right Jamaica used to have a higher literacy rate.
Its up to you, vote out the government and put in place honorable people that are concerned about the regular guy getting an education etc. and Jamaica has made the first step.

As for US tourism dollars, make no mistake, it is going to go down and YES the Island will miss it.

Dr.Dudd
09-22-2005, 06:30 PM
TYou can trust who you want,but Jamaicans have a differrebt attitude,about trust. In Jamaica there is a saying that "The same knife that cut goat will cut sheep.
If they kie about what they are doing for others,they will lie anout every promise.
We nit that fool we may be poor,but we nlt that stupid to believe aby person who have been proven a liar.
About the tourist dollar. It would not be the first time and miss it or not some of us still believe in finding out own way,even if it means a lonely and difficult road. You lknoice you are the one talking about changing the government and replacing them with 'honest' men?
Well it is because we do not believe that honest men will necessarily stay honest when they get therew.
We really rather to put any person who is willing anf institute systems to keep them from getting out of hand. We really believe i checks and ballances,not angels and saints.

swingcat
09-22-2005, 11:17 PM
My very best hopes you are right.

MsScotchBonnet1
10-01-2005, 08:42 PM
Didnt you realise? You are paying for the prime minister and his cronies to travel to America and stay in ridiculously overpriced hotels just so they can do NOTHING

pull_through
10-03-2005, 01:39 PM
Hello All,

This is a very interesting topic. It has a lot of very strong arguments. It makes a lot of "NOISES" but has nothing concrete. It got really personal, never the less, I would like to put my 'two pennies' worth in.

1st some history. I was born in London, lived in JA for 21 yrs before returning to England. I must say it wa great living there. But it became extremely hard to earn a living. I left school with what could be considered a moderate education - 4 CXC's at C and above and 2 GCSE C and D, but could I get a job (1986).

Eventually I decided to join the prison services and immediately realised that there was so much corruption that a person had two choices. As the saying goes - you are either with me or against me. Corruption is unfortunately a by-product of the need to either survive or get rich (it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven).

If you eventually decide to join the masses of unscrupulus individuals and you end up losing out on your first deal, you feel hurt and small therefore the next thing is to fight back, literally. Once you start this circle then the next thing is to move up the pecking order. The more you exert your authority the more respect you can. You are not necessarily liked but you are respected and people will always do what you ask because they are afraid of the repraisals.

How do you break this circle?

Corruption was not limited to the prisoners. I refused to join this band of merry men and decided to leave. Well to be honest that was one of the reasons but not the main one.

I was not going to stoop to that level, and no I do not think I am better than the next person. I beleive in honesty. I would rather a person says to me they do not like me if that is the truth.

We need to teach our children and children's children that the best way to live is through honesty. Only then can Jamaica dig themselves out of the situation they are in.

swingcat
10-05-2005, 04:32 PM
Dr. Dudd: You don't have to trust the US to want to rid the Island of the violence; guns, and drugs. I would think you would want to do it for your own neighborhood

Dr.Dudd
10-05-2005, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by lover of jamaica land:
Dr. Dudd: You don't have to trust the US to want to rid the Island of the violence; guns, and drugs. I would think you would want to do it for your own neighborhood Don't come here with your usual created story. You call yourself 'loverofjamaica land,but you cime here ti make all sort of accusation. That the reasin why Jamaic is in this position,is because it won;t accede to promises made by US representatives. IYou could not support your statement. So you cime back with a new slight of hand . this time suggesting that about trusing the US is not importamt to currect the problem.
You are the one that came here saying that if Jamaica did what the US anted,it's problem would have been solved.
You are the one that was complaining.
I just pointed out that pronises by the administration,to spen millions on AIDS ti Africa did not mayerialize. I also point out that this is not a uniuque situatiion.
This topic is about the use iof the Jamaican tax dollars. You are the one that highjacked it with your suggestion.
Now you want to further hijack the thread with your transfering your suggestion to me.

swingcat
10-09-2005, 09:17 PM
Dr. I am not transferring anything. I am saying if you don't trust (as you say) the US to do what they promise fine,. Yes I am complaining about the guns and crime and treatment of the women and chi8ldren. I am entitled to my opinion. If you do not want to try dealing with the most humane government on earth, stay the way you are. I remember a kinder loving Jamaica. You also have no idea what you are talking about regarding the AIDS program funded by the US. Also check yourself to see how much your Government refused to accept to fight aids in lieu of cooperating with the civilized world controlling drugs, crime and guns etc..Know your government before you criticize another.

Dr.Dudd
10-09-2005, 11:00 PM
The US don't have any ptoblem that you could use your concern to solve?
Like the treatment of blacks!!
Ot maybe AIDS in the minority demography?
What about health care availanillity in the innercirt/

Every body have them problems,but isntead of solving it with all the wealth 'humane'acts,they try to go around the world to tell others what they are not doing.

swingcat
10-11-2005, 01:36 AM
Dr. I do not agree but going around the world and telling friendly people what they are not doing could be very helpful.
Aids is treatable and in the US they make sure inner city black or whites get treatment. No ifs and or buts about it. The blacks and whites and all have an equal chance at a free education.
Yes we would like to go around the world and see that every human is given these opportunities. Not guns, drugs and crime. The US has alot of that also but still can work on the problems above. I wish you would get your facts straight.

Jamaica truly used to be the land of love. Not now. No way.

swingcat
10-11-2005, 11:45 AM
Dr Dudd: You say the reason Jamaica is in the position it is is they will not accede to the US before the US gives aid and comfort. It is a new generation on the Island than the one I grew up to love. Now Generation wants it cake and eat it too. Of course you must do something to get something. The new generation does not want to work for anything. Just thugs, criminals. Thieves. What happen to morals.?

swingcat
10-11-2005, 11:45 AM
Dr Dudd: You say the reason Jamaica is in the position it is is they will not accede to the US before the US gives aid and comfort. It is a new generation on the Island than the one I grew up to love. Now Generation wants it cake and eat it too. Of course you must do something to get something. The new generation does not want to work for anything. Just thugs, criminals. Thieves. What happen to morals.?

swingcat
10-11-2005, 11:52 AM
I just want to know when the women on the Island will stand up and say, Enough is enough. Men take no responsibility for the children they bring into the world. They abandon them to grow up uneducated, hungry beggars. You must take responsibility for your actions. You must learn to respect your women again. This generations has lost its mind. It won't work. Drugs and thieves. Beggars on a good day. Beggars are keeping tourists away. Your police are for the most part hard working and honest. But, just as the US and every where there are a few bad apples. Women must sieze the moment and return Jamaica to the land of Love we all remember.

Ja. Jewel
10-11-2005, 02:34 PM
Lover, I've been living in Ja. for 2+ months now and am amongst Jamaicans. We have many reasoning sessions about the crime & murders...don't think not one would agree with you about your statement about MOST police are honest....all I've heard are that they are the WORST of the criminals, because they work with them. Most all people I know will not give police any info. for fear of their lives!

swingcat
10-11-2005, 05:42 PM
Ja Jewell: One bad apple can spoil the whole crate.
I too live in J for 6 months every year. I do remember before Independence from England a kinder, gentler Island. I also agree the dishonest police are the worst (just as they are in the US and everywhere else). However; I personally know police who are hard working, family men. Lets not through the baby out with the bath water. Pray the bad apples are weeded out. I also agree that many are so leary of the cops they will not cooperate out of fear of reprisal. Same all over the world.
The crime, treatment of women, beggars and more are keeping tourist off the Island. The powers to be could not steal while under British control so they were as happy as the British when they wanted their independence in the 70's. Jamaicans still have the ballot and can vote out the corruption. They too have the power to clean up the police department. I pray for the Island to be the land of love again.
Men take no responsibility for the children they bring into the world. Thieves, beggars are keeping tourists away. Again, pray for these children and the Island to return even better than ever. One step at a time, rid the Island of the corruption from Patterson on down. Do it at the ballot box, not with guns. Pray for the Island of Love...

swingcat
10-11-2005, 05:47 PM
Education, education, education. That is the answer for the children of the Island of Love.
This generation is fixated on drugs, guns, abusing women and children, hunger and beggars.
The social services for the children and women are completely inept and corrupt. Of course they are bound by the little money trickled down to them by the administration of PJ. Believe me; there is very little left after the corruption for infrastructure, education, needy, job creation and all the basics to build a good life for the future of the children.

swingcat
10-11-2005, 05:57 PM
DR Dudd: sept 12 you say the gun and crime are because of the unemployment and lack of opportunity. Education is the only answer. Do not repeat this generation. The main production of the Island now is criminals. But they have no opportunity, hence no alternative.
Every society faces this problem. Its answer lies in the morals taught to the children. Teach love not violence and never let a neighbor go hungry. That is what the Island of Love used to believe.

Dr.Dudd
10-11-2005, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by lover of jamaica land:
DR Dudd: sept 12 you say the gun and crime are because of the unemployment and lack of opportunity. Education is the only answer. Do not repeat this generation. The main production of the Island now is criminals. But they have no opportunity, hence no alternative.
Every society faces this problem. Its answer lies in the morals taught to the children. Teach love not violence and never let a neighbor go hungry. That is what the Island of Love used to believe. Do you think that Jamaican children have any more need for ,oral training that American children?

Let me tell you a secret,at the play offs between the Yankees and the Boston Red Sox that was played in Boston. The had to use 900 police officers and that is for an event that does not involve the feeding and suppoer of their family.
It was pnly a bame, yet they needed that many police officers.
Still believe you can advise me about what is Jamaica's problem?

Ot os not the morals of Americans that result in lower murder rate,and it is not the morals of Jamaicans wgy the murder rate is so high in Jamaica.
In the US it is all abouitv the country being able to afford adequate policing,and in Jamaica it ios all about the country not being able to afford adequate policing.
You also state that education will solve the Jamaican problem. I say it will help.but not as much as improving the productivity of Jamaicans to the point where their incime will be able to support the tax base that will be able to support the level of policing that isrequired.
The majority of uneducated JamaicANS IS QYITE ABLE TO FUNCTION IN SKILLS THAT COULD SUPPORT NUCH HIGHER INCOME THAN IS NOW PAID IN THE COUNTTY.
EDUCATING THEM WILL NOT MAKE THEM EARN ANY MORE,BECAUSE THE JOBS THAT THEY CAN FILL WILL BE THE JONS THAT ARR THERE,AND UNL;ESS THE NATURE OF THE JOBS CHANGE,THEY WILL SIMPLY MIGRATE,AND THOSE WHO ARE LEFT WILL BE IN THE SAME POSITIOn.


Capslock error.

Dr.Dudd
10-11-2005, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by lover of jamaica land:
Dr Dudd: You say the reason Jamaica is in the position it is is they will not accede to the US before the US gives aid and comfort. It is a new generation on the Island than the one I grew up to love. Now Generation wants it cake and eat it too. Of course you must do something to get something. The new generation does not want to work for anything. Just thugs, criminals. Thieves. What happen to morals.? How woild you like some one to come here and post that rubbish you post about Americans?
You seem to think that because you visit a country you have the rioght to come and judge them. Yet you don'r seem to have the time to do that in your country.
I did not say niothing of the sort. I stated in response to you expounding about if Jamaica did what the US wanted they would not have hiog grime. I stated that a Promise is a comfort only to a fool. Jamaicans do not really count on promises. There is a Jamaican sayinf that one bird in hand is better than a thousand you will get.

Dr.Dudd
10-11-2005, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by lover of jamaica land:
Ja Jewell: One bad apple can spoil the whole crate.
I too live in J for 6 months every year. I do remember before Independence from England a kinder, gentler Island. I also agree the dishonest police are the worst (just as they are in the US and everywhere else). However; I personally know police who are hard working, family men. Lets not through the baby out with the bath water. Pray the bad apples are weeded out. I also agree that many are so leary of the cops they will not cooperate out of fear of reprisal. Same all over the world.
The crime, treatment of women, beggars and more are keeping tourist off the Island. The powers to be could not steal while under British control so they were as happy as the British when they wanted their independence in the 70's. Jamaicans still have the ballot and can vote out the corruption. They too have the power to clean up the police department. I pray for the Island to be the land of love again.
Men take no responsibility for the children they bring into the world. Thieves, beggars are keeping tourists away. Again, pray for these children and the Island to return even better than ever. One step at a time, rid the Island of the corruption from Patterson on down. Do it at the ballot box, not with guns. Pray for the Island of Love... Ohh,I see where you are coming from!!
Pre independence,when the majority of Jamaicans could not work in hotels fromt desk,or in banks,or even as store clerks!
We will rather have short lives as men and women,that to return to the days of aparthied a,d be somebody's boy and girl.
If you think that we will accept colonialism either by UK US or any other power,you have something coming.
Talking rubbish abiut Jamaicans were happy unfer the Btits?
What a way you know how we think!!
You still think that you know Jamaicans eh?/
You are in for the shock of your life.
So we were happy under the Brits You really think that you know every Jamaican you come in contast with eh!!
You think that the same view thay goive you on a topioc is the view they give their family?

swingcat
10-12-2005, 01:21 PM
Your saying honesty is theproblem?

swingcat
10-12-2005, 01:21 PM
Your saying honesty is theproblem?

Dr.Dudd
10-12-2005, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by lover of jamaica land:
Your saying honesty is theproblem? No honesty is not the problem,but what is in play is the need to eat and support their family.
Durely if you know that a person is willing to mortally harm you on the basis of a statement you make,youi wouldn't be considered dishonest not to make that statement in their presence.
Like you know that the truth is that your boss is a noo good,would you be dishonest not to tell him so?
Well why is it different when a Jamaican does it?
You don't think that they are siphisticated enough to be assesed as anything but dishomest,because they do the same you would have done under similar circumstance?

It is the same as a fisherman baiting his traps.
Yo the fishes,he is feeding them,is he dishonest,behave as if he intend to feed the fishes,although he intend that they become somebofy's food?
Well the Jamaicans are not dishomest.
They just do what is necessary to survive.
In Jamaica there is a saying that ine has to do what is necessART TO SURVIVE,UNTIL THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY CHOSE TO DO TO LIVE.

swingcat
10-12-2005, 05:13 PM
So murder, rape and crime are ok in your mind on the Island?

swingcat
10-12-2005, 05:13 PM
So murder, rape and crime are ok in your mind on the Island?

Dr.Dudd
10-12-2005, 05:24 PM
Murder rape and crime is everywhere as a matter of fact Jamaica has the highest murder rate in the Caribbean,but it's crime rate is luch lower than the majority of countriers.
I am sure you did not realize the latter
What would it matter any way,since you have no solutiin to the problem.

swingcat
10-13-2005, 06:17 PM
I do have a solution: Educate, feed your children and teach them morals. Not to beg. Get a job...You are so full of excuses you cannot see a solution. Every suggestion is rubbish to you. If you are not part of the solution, you must be part of the problem.

swingcat
10-13-2005, 06:17 PM
I do have a solution: Educate, feed your children and teach them morals. Not to beg. Get a job...You are so full of excuses you cannot see a solution. Every suggestion is rubbish to you. If you are not part of the solution, you must be part of the problem.

jacobsammy
10-13-2005, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by lover of jamaica land:
DR Dudd: You are 100% right. The US is trying to stop other countries from helping you with your debt. However they have made it clear as Colin Powell (born in Jamaica) said. "Jamaica government will not get any help until they make an effort to stop the illegal crack and cocaine trade. No body gets anything for nothing. Granted it has been a while since I have been living in Jamaica but I'm pretty sure that the biggest cocaine traders haven't changed since then. Do you really think that P.J would do anything against his good good friend? Don't kid yourself I have been there when P.J and one of the largest drug traders in the country sat and and laughed and had a ball. From watching them you would know who runs the country.

I think the answer lies in a decent wage, for all. Stop value all things foreign over one's own.

I do not agree with the theory that Jamaica should bow down to the US and get rid of drugs because they say so, or do anything simply because the US tells them to. Cocaine is an evil vice, but no one really tackles that they always want to trouble the herb. Which is something that they should leave alone. But there is more money to be made in cocaine then in herb.

And in reference to the point that tourists won't be visiting Jamaica if they don't do something about the crime, I disagree. People won't be visiting Jamaica if this country continues on the downward spiral of the economy.

Crime is bad in Jamaica as it is in anyother place. One difference I have noticed living in the states, many murders happen every day. Yet they do not broadcast them daily. The murder rate is not listed in the paper on a daily, weekly, monthly or even yearly basis. Maybe people think the crime is so bad because Jamaica broadcasts every murder, and the US does not. It works at hiding it's statistics.

I'm sorry I do not know what will make Jamaica a better place to live. But I can tell you that Jamaican's attitude and God in their heart makes me want to be closer to them then those here in the US.

Dr.Dudd
10-14-2005, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by lover of jamaica land:
I do have a solution: Educate, feed your children and teach them morals. Not to beg. Get a job...You are so full of excuses you cannot see a solution. Every suggestion is rubbish to you. If you are not part of the solution, you must be part of the problem. You don't have any solution.
If you had one you would have used it in the US,to splve the problems there, before you come to Jamaica to solve our prpoblem.
I suppose you solution is as valuable as it costs.

swingcat
10-15-2005, 01:50 AM
There a million Americans to one Jamaican. In proportion; education and jobs replace crime and derilicts

Dr.Dudd
10-15-2005, 02:19 AM
Does one think that one would really care if more of his neighnors are drowning if he is drowning too?
One have to save oneself before helping others. Deal with the problem in your own yard,befire you come to examine other peoples's problem.

swingcat
10-15-2005, 01:05 PM
Hilarious Dr.: Thats calling the kettle black. You can't deal with your problems in your yard. US is eating. Examine and solve your own problems since your so much superior. Good luck

MsScotchBonnet1
10-15-2005, 07:47 PM
Education is key for the young people
Jamaicans are already intelligent people but the poorer children should educated until the age of 16
I think older boys from the age of 18 should be conscripted compulsorarily into the army especially those shooting up Kingston, if they want to shoot let them join up.

Get really bad with those who are bring crack and and other drugs onto the island certain other countries would love to see Jamaicans hopelessy dependent on crack.

Try to see if you can get the debts that Jamaica owes cancelled. They do it for african countries why not jamaica?

Family values should be restored forcing feckless fathers to pay for the offspring they leave these young ladies with.

It breaks my heart to see any Jamaican begging for food. Set up welfare program so that at least people who cannot support their families can get something to eat!

Gunmen, theives and beggars put tourists off coming to Jamaica they would rather be in St Lucia or Barbados than come to us...This is dangerous for the Jamaican economy which is bad enough as it is. Zero tolerance on crime and the CAUSES of crime.
Jamaica is a beautiful and could be a wealthy Island but whilst you politicians get into petty aruguments the problems will continue and one by one the tourist will drift away...unno better watch it!

swingcat
10-16-2005, 09:03 PM
YOU SHOULD LEAD THE ISLAND

GREAT SOLUTIONS

I VOTE FOR YOU