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  1. #11
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    Re: Can a person fall from grace?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70388-shameonyou.gif[/img] ((noh lissen to dem yahh Dr. J)) [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]..but still, come and indulge us any how....

    To anyone, not just Dr.J
    I guess the bigger question is, seeing that he committed suicide, would you say he forfeited receiving grace because he killed himself?
    </div></div>

    Another perspective from GotQuestions.Org. I was actually trying to find a specific scripture and came across this. Will post it if I find it.

    "What is the Christian view of suicide? What does the Bible say about suicide?"

    According to the Bible, whether a person commits suicide is not what determines whether he or she gains entrance into heaven. If an unsaved person commits suicide, he or she has done nothing but “expedite” his or her journey to the lake of fire. However, the person who committed suicide will ultimately be in hell for rejecting salvation through Christ, not because he or she committed suicide. The Bible mentions five specific people who committed suicide: Abimelech (Judges 9:54), Saul (1 Samuel 31:4), Saul's armor-bearer (1 Samuel 31:4-6), Ahithophel (2 Samuel 17:23), Zimri (1 Kings 16:18), and Judas (Matthew 27:5). All of them were wicked, evil, sinful men (not enough is said regarding Saul's armor-bearer to make a judgment as to his character). Some consider Samson an instance of suicide (Judges 16:26-31), but Samson's goal was to kill the Philistines, not himself. The Bible views suicide as equal to murder – that’s what it is – self-murder. God is the One who is to decide when and how a person should die. To take that power into your own hands, according to the Bible, is blasphemy to God.

    What does the Bible say about a Christian who commits suicide? I do not believe that a Christian who commits suicide will lose salvation and go to hell. The Bible teaches that from the moment a person truly believes in Christ, he or she is eternally secure (John 3:16). According to the Bible, Christians can know beyond any doubt that they possess eternal life no matter what happens. “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God” (1 John 5:13). Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love! “For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:38-39). If no “created thing” can separate a Christian from God’s love, and even a Christian who commits suicide is a “created thing,” then not even suicide can separate him from God’s love. Jesus died for all of our sins...and if a true Christian were to, in a time of spiritual attack and weakness, commit suicide - that would be a sin that Jesus died for.

    This is not to say that suicide is not a serious sin against God. According to the Bible, suicide is murder; it is always wrong. I would have serious doubts about the genuineness of faith of anyone who claimed to be a Christian yet committed suicide. There is no circumstance that can justify someone, especially a Christian, taking his or her own life. Christians are called to live their lives for God – the decision on when to die is God’s and God’s alone. Perhaps a good way to illustrate suicide for a Christian would be from the Book of Esther. The Persians had a law that anyone who came before the king uninvited could be put to death unless the king extended his scepter towards the person - indicating mercy. Suicide for a Christian would be forcing your way in to see the King instead of waiting for Him to summon you. He will point His scepter towards you, sparing your eternal life, but that does not mean He is happy with you. Although it is not describing suicide, the Bible verse 1 Corinthians 3:15 is probably a good description of what happens to a Christian who commits suicide: “He himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.”

    Source
    I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had absolutely no other place to go. -- Abraham Lincoln

  2. #12
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    Re: Can a person fall from grace?

    <span style='font-size: 14pt'> The Bible teaches that from the moment a person truly believes in Christ, he or she is eternally secure (John 3:16 According to the Bible, Christians can know beyond any doubt that they possess eternal life no matter what happens. “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,</span>

    So You want to tell me that this author really believe that a

    christian can do anything and then end up the same place as

    those who try and us successful at keeping Gods laws, as long as he really believe?

    So you mean that this author really belueve that if a christian really beileve in God,he can do such an act as commit suicide?

    You mean that he does not rely on God ,but take his life instead,and still believe in God at that time?

    He/she was either drunk hwen he was writiung this or he does not really belueve the tennets of Christianity.

    No wonder they practice so much deviant behavior and bring dusrepute to the religion.
    Join me as members of the church of LOVE,and let us change the world, one good deed at a time.

  3. #13
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    Re: Can a person fall from grace?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compry</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70388-shameonyou.gif[/img] ((noh lissen to dem yahh Dr. J)) [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]..but still, come and indulge us any how....

    To anyone, not just Dr.J
    I guess the bigger question is, seeing that he committed suicide, would you say he forfeited receiving grace because he killed himself?
    </div></div>

    Another perspective from GotQuestions.Org. I was actually trying to find a specific scripture and came across this. Will post it if I find it.

    "What is the Christian view of suicide? What does the Bible say about suicide?"

    According to the Bible, whether a person commits suicide is not what determines whether he or she gains entrance into heaven. If an unsaved person commits suicide, he or she has done nothing but “expedite” his or her journey to the lake of fire. However, the person who committed suicide will ultimately be in hell for rejecting salvation through Christ, not because he or she committed suicide. The Bible mentions five specific people who committed suicide: Abimelech (Judges 9:54), Saul (1 Samuel 31:4), Saul's armor-bearer (1 Samuel 31:4-6), Ahithophel (2 Samuel 17:23), Zimri (1 Kings 16:18), and Judas (Matthew 27:5). All of them were wicked, evil, sinful men (not enough is said regarding Saul's armor-bearer to make a judgment as to his character). Some consider Samson an instance of suicide (Judges 16:26-31), but Samson's goal was to kill the Philistines, not himself. The Bible views suicide as equal to murder – that’s what it is – self-murder. God is the One who is to decide when and how a person should die. To take that power into your own hands, according to the Bible, is blasphemy to God.

    What does the Bible say about a Christian who commits suicide? I do not believe that a Christian who commits suicide will lose salvation and go to hell. The Bible teaches that from the moment a person truly believes in Christ, he or she is eternally secure (John 3:16). According to the Bible, Christians can know beyond any doubt that they possess eternal life no matter what happens. “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God” (1 John 5:13). Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love! “For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:38-39). If no “created thing” can separate a Christian from God’s love, and even a Christian who commits suicide is a “created thing,” then not even suicide can separate him from God’s love. Jesus died for all of our sins...and if a true Christian were to, in a time of spiritual attack and weakness, commit suicide - that would be a sin that Jesus died for.

    This is not to say that suicide is not a serious sin against God. According to the Bible, suicide is murder; it is always wrong. I would have serious doubts about the genuineness of faith of anyone who claimed to be a Christian yet committed suicide. There is no circumstance that can justify someone, especially a Christian, taking his or her own life. Christians are called to live their lives for God – the decision on when to die is God’s and God’s alone. Perhaps a good way to illustrate suicide for a Christian would be from the Book of Esther. The Persians had a law that anyone who came before the king uninvited could be put to death unless the king extended his scepter towards the person - indicating mercy. Suicide for a Christian would be forcing your way in to see the King instead of waiting for Him to summon you. He will point His scepter towards you, sparing your eternal life, but that does not mean He is happy with you. Although it is not describing suicide, the Bible verse 1 Corinthians 3:15 is probably a good description of what happens to a Christian who commits suicide: “He himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.”

    Source </div></div>

    [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img]See, I have an issue with quite a few of his/her viewpoints..sounds slanted to me..As CEW says and incidentally, I agree with this;
    I really don't believe anyone can answer that question with absolute certainty either way,

    Do we really understand the mercy of God? or are we examining his mercy through the scope of our limited human mind/heart? [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img]


    I am thinking...do you smell smoke?

    FKA-DC

  4. #14
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    Re: Can a person fall from grace?

    Your point Silent_River and CEW's is exactly why I posted that other perspective when I came across it. We (human) cannot and will not understand the extent of God's grace and mercy. To us, we believe it's extended only in life. How many of us know what goes on after death? I don't. I've learned to stop trying to figure out what God has done, is doing and will do.
    I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had absolutely no other place to go. -- Abraham Lincoln

  5. #15
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    Re: Can a person fall from grace?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 14pt'> The Bible teaches that from the moment a person truly believes in Christ, he or she is eternally secure (John 3:16 According to the Bible, Christians can know beyond any doubt that they possess eternal life no matter what happens. “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,</span>

    So You want to tell me that this author really believe that a

    christian can do anything and then end up the same place as

    those who try and us successful at keeping Gods laws, as long as he really believe?

    So you mean that this author really belueve that if a christian really beileve in God,he can do such an act as commit suicide?

    You mean that he does not rely on God ,but take his life instead,and still believe in God at that time?

    He/she was either drunk hwen he was writiung this or he does not really belueve the tennets of Christianity.

    No wonder they practice so much deviant behavior and bring dusrepute to the religion. </div></div>

    not drunk doc, just sounds like they are leaning towards the Calvanistic view IMO..
    I am thinking...do you smell smoke?

    FKA-DC

  6. #16
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    Re: Can a person fall from grace?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your point Silent_River and CEW's is exactly why I posted that other perspective when I came across it. We (human) cannot and will not understand the extent of God's grace and mercy. To us, we believe it's extended only in life. How many of us know what goes on after death? I don't. I've learned to stop trying to figure out what God has done, is doing and will do.

    </div></div>

    I tell you Compry...we cannot know with absolute certainty can we? [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70384-praying.gif[/img] grace is a renewed gift every morning we wake up...... [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70459-hugs.gif[/img]
    I am thinking...do you smell smoke?

    FKA-DC

  7. #17
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    Re: Can a person fall from grace?

    One of my favorite scripture...Lam. 3:22-23. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70459-hugs.gif[/img]

    I'm doing something on this site and decided to search on the current subject and found this other perspective.

    Is suicide a sin?

    In today’s society, suicide is increasingly viewed as an acceptable means of solving one’s problems. In some legal systems, medical professionals have been given the right, and even the power, to assist in the suicide of those whose conditions render them incapable of carrying out the act themselves. Aside from the moral and ethical issues this raises on the human level, what does God say about suicide?

    The Sixth Commandment states, “You shall not kill” (Ex. 20:13; Deut. 5:17). Notice that there is no distinction made between killing another person and killing oneself.

    A person considering suicide has reached that point by allowing circumstances in his life to rule over him. The apostle Paul asked, “Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Rom. 6:16). In verse 12, he exhorts us, “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in the lusts thereof.”

    In Matthew 22:39, Christ taught, “…You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” In Ephesians 5:29, Paul stated, “For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it…” A person contemplating suicide may say that he hates himself, but his real motivation is one of utter self-love, to the point that he totally disregards the feelings and needs of others, and the impact that his actions will have on his family and friends. In I Corinthians 13:5, Paul stated, “[Charity (love)] seeks not its own…” He also stated, “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel [a non-believer]” (I Tim. 5:8).

    Those who commit suicide receive the same judgment as those who do not even believe God’s Word. Their ultimate reward is shown in Revelation 21:8: “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

    The Bible clearly shows that the unpardonable sin is any sin unrepented of (Heb. 10:26; I John 5:16; Jas. 4:17). Killing is plainly sin. One who kills himself is certainly in jeopardy of being left in an unrepentant condition.

    Source
    I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had absolutely no other place to go. -- Abraham Lincoln

  8. #18
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    Re: Can a person fall from grace?

    CEW!


    Matthew 12:31-32 (KJV)
    Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. [32] And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.



    “I really don't believe anyone can answer that question with absolute certainty either way, however one could argue that grace is a gift extended by God and not something we can earn or forfeit.”

    GRACE

    b. Mercy; clemency. 5. A favor rendered by one who need not do so; indulgence.
    6. A temporary immunity or exemption; a reprieve.

    If grace is a gift. Then it cannot be earn. However, it can be rejected, spurned, lost, or stolen.
    A Mystic Christian: Bachelor in theology, Masters in Christians counseling.

  9. #19
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    Re: Can a person fall from grace?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DrJames</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can a sinner reach the place in sin where God will not pardon him or her? My aunt’s husband was a vile sinner. He hurt so many people until the people banned together and employed the service of couple of wizards. The wizards came to his house, throw him a rope, and told him to hang himself. He hanged himself two times and some how miraculously escaped. I was called in to pray with him. We both prayed and cry. He could not forgive himself for what he has done to people, so he finally hanged himself the third time. This time he died. When I was little, I hit one of his dogs, he told me that by twelve noon, my cutlass is going to chop me up, and so it was. However, now it was his time to take the count.

    http://www.rtbpms.com/stopwastingtime.html </div></div>

    he needed to forgive himself...

  10. #20
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    Re: Can a person fall from grace?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 14pt'> The Bible teaches that from the moment a person truly believes in Christ, he or she is eternally secure (John 3:16 According to the Bible, Christians can know beyond any doubt that they possess eternal life no matter what happens. “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,</span>

    So You want to tell me that this author really believe that a

    christian can do anything and then end up the same place as

    those who try and us successful at keeping Gods laws, as long as he really believe?

    So you mean that this author really belueve that if a christian really beileve in God,he can do such an act as commit suicide?

    You mean that he does not rely on God ,but take his life instead,and still believe in God at that time?

    He/she was either drunk hwen he was writiung this or he does not really belueve the tennets of Christianity.

    No wonder they practice so much deviant behavior and bring dusrepute to the religion. </div></div>

    so you mean to say that any sin that goes unrepented by a Christian and they die, they will not be let into heaven.... good reason to be a believer when none of us have the ability to be perfect and act with sin every single waking moment of out lives......

    and what about ppl who commit suicide due to a mental illness? They dont have the capacity or same internal tools to pull themselves emotionally from where they are and not harm themselves. They deserve comdemnation to I would guess by this argument.

    Lovely.
    And he will slay any Dragon for me [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/inlove1.gif[/img]


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