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CeaBee
12-18-2009, 10:36 AM
Taxed to death - From cradle to grave, Jamaicans hit hard by new tariffs

Published: Friday | December 18, 2009

Daraine Luton, Senior Staff Reporter


FINANCE MINISTER Audley Shaw yesterday announced the largest tax package of the calendar year as the Government moved to plug a $17.9-billion hole in the Budget.

The package, the third announced by Shaw this fiscal year, is intended to raise $21.8 billion annualised through the medium term.

It brings to $47.6 billion the total tax bundle announced by Shaw since April.

Speaking in Parliament yester-day, Prime Minister Bruce Golding said the move to pull more taxes from Jamaicans was necessary to heal the nation's ailing economy.

No alternative

"There is simply no alternative to raising new taxes," Golding said.

"Not unless we are going to start identifying which school we should shut down, which hospital and clinics we are going to close, which government department that might be providing vital services to people we are going to take out ... we are faced with a situation where there is no alternative," the prime minister added.

Shaw said the $21.8-billion package was "intended to enhance the Government's revenue and curtail the fiscal deficit".

Effective New Year's Day, the standard rate for general consumption tax (GCT) will be increased from 16.5 per cent to 17.5 per cent, a move which Government says will yield $3.6 billion.

But not only will the rate of GCT be increased as the Government has brought all basic food items - with the exception of rice and counter flour - into the GCT base.

Food items such as salt, syrup, cooking oil, noodle soups, meat, ground provisions, sardines, bread, buns, bullas, eggs and sugar are now subject to GCT.

Persons paying for undertaking services will also have to pay GCT on burial, cremation and items such as coffins.

In April, Shaw was forced to remove several items, including salt and syrup, from the GCT list after the Opposition People's National Party protested, calling the move ill-advised.

However, in justifying his actions to broaden the GCT base, the finance minister said yesterday that it was "designed to bring efficiency and remove some of the distortions that are plaguing the system".

He told Parliament that the expansion of the base was a recommendation from the Matalon Tax review committee, which was commissioned by the previous government.

Meanwhile, residential consumers of electricity who consume more than 200 kilowatt-hours of electricity from the Jamaica Public Service Company (JPS) will have to pay GCT on their light bills.

Shaw claimed many residential customers would not be affected.

"Of the 523,000 customers of the JPS, this tax will not apply to 381,000 Jamaicans as they consume electricity below 200kWh per month," Shaw said.

The Government intends to raise $1.2 billion in revenue from putting GCT on residential electricity bills but Shaw said the yield is "the less important point".

"We are sending a message to the consumers of electricity above 200kWh per month. Get into the conservation mode ... treat it as a conservation measure," Shaw said.

Other taxes

The other new taxes announced by Government are adjustments in the special consumption tax on fuel and cigarettes.

Government's move to levy more taxes follows its decision to re-enter a borrowing relation with the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

Jamaica is seeking to borrow more than US$1.2 billion for balance-of-trade support from the multilateral lending agency.

"While we had little or no choice but to go to the IMF, an IMF programme cannot, in and of itself, develop Jamaica," Shaw said.

"Equally, we have no choice but to embark together on a deliberate path of embracing and developing our future," he added.

According to Shaw, had previous administrations adequately grown the economy and reduced the country's debt and interest rates, the Golding administration would not have been forced to swing the tax axe in this way.

For his part, Golding said the Government he leads could not deny Jamaica's retarded state.

"It may very well be that the measures that we have had to adopt have been forced on us by necessity because of the global recession," he said. "If that is the case, then perhaps it is the one good thing that the global recession might have done for us and therefore putting our house in order is top priority."

He added: "We may have lacked the political will before. We may have thought at times that political expediency was more important than the future of this country. The measures that we have announced are tough. They are not likely to be popular. But leadership that strives for popularity is not what the country needs at this time."

[email protected]

See full details of revenue measures

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20091218/lead/lead1.html

Bizzy
12-18-2009, 10:38 AM
http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif

mi Facebook home page full up wid ppl status a bawl bout the taxes dem ...

RichD
12-18-2009, 10:39 AM
the gov have to find a way to increase tax compliance.....tax compliance is below 50% ...that is where the focus should be ..things like gct punish the poor man too much.

CeaBee
12-18-2009, 10:40 AM
GCT gone up from 16.5 to 17.5%

Basic food items now subject to GCT...

Bizzy
12-18-2009, 10:41 AM
http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif

CeaBee
12-18-2009, 10:50 AM
New tax measures cruel, unjust, says Omar

BY PHILIP HAMILTON Observer writer

Friday, December 18, 2009

OPPOSITION spokesman on finance Dr Omar Davies has described the Government's new tax package as cruel and unjust.

According to Dr Davies, during the 2008-2009 fiscal year, the Opposition had asked the Government for an immediate revamping of the budget and a new supplementary budget put in place after it became apparent there were problems following the publication of the fiscal data within several months.

This was ignored and delayed and the supplementary budget not put in place until March of this year, Davies said, adding that it was clear to everyone that the data with the projections on which the budget had been built was flawed.

The Opposition, he said, made a proposal in April of a special cess on treasury bills which would have brought in a conservative estimate of $10 billion. "It is interesting that the Government would seek to entertain the possibility of the wrath of 90 per cent of the population by this tax package rather than implement a tax which I have had discussions with major players in the financial system and there is not one of them who has expressed opposition to this."

Davies added that the social issues and social implications as a result of the new tax measures would affect not only persons below the poverty line, but also the middle-class as well.

He also expressed amazement at the manner in which the new measures were implemented, given the technical feasibility required to collect these taxes.

"It is not possible for the Government to simultaneously grab that amount from private citizens and at the same time continue spending," he said. "It is technically not possible, and we demand to see the technical calculations. We fear that as we put forward a technically flawed tax package, it is going to undermine the IMF programme even before we start it because we are building ourselves up for a failure."

Davies also asked how the Government planned to collect GCT on previously exempt items such as fresh fruits and vegetables at Coronation Market and criticised the decision to tax solar water heaters while advocating energy consumption.

He said there was the need for a formal presentation and debate to determine what has guided the Government to put together such an economic programme, a suggestion ably supported by Opposition Leader Portia Simpson Miller.

Describing the new measures as a Christmas present from the Government, Simpson Miller said the poor and working-class will be devastated by the increase in GCT to 17.5 per cent, which will impact on electricity and other utilities.

"Despite the pronouncement of the Government of being caring and compassionate, they found it possible this afternoon to impose one of the most oppressive tax packages ever on the backs of the Jamaican people," said Simpson Miller. "The working-class, the poor, the oppressed, the dispossessed and the disappearing middle-class, everyone and everything, from the cradle to the grave, come January 1, will be taxed," lamented Simpson Miller.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/New-tax-measures-cruel--unjust--says-Omar

CeaBee
12-18-2009, 10:54 AM
GCT slapped on raw foods

Published: Friday | December 18, 2009


Persons shopping for ground produce in Coronation Market, or any other market after January 1, 2010, should walk with their calculators because they will have to pay general consumption tax (GCT) on these items.

A ministry paper tabled by Finance Minister Audley Shaw shows that raw foodstuff, including fresh fruit and vegetables, will attract 17.5 per cent GCT.

Yam, banana, onion, garlic, meat and poultry will also attract GCT come New Year's Day.

And there is no beating the taxman by travelling to the country to buy the produce directly from the farmer.

The ministry paper makes it clear that unprocessed agricultural produce, freshwater fish, forestry cultivation and horticulture supplied directly at the farm gate will also attract GCT.

Some of the items to attract GCT come January 1, 2010

1) Raw food stuff as follows:

a) Fresh fruit and vegetables

b) Ground provisions

c) Legumes

d) Onion and garlic

e) Meat

f) Poultry

g) Fish

2) Cornmeal

3) Corned beef

4) Pickled mackerel, herring, shad and dried salted fish

5) Canned sardines, herring and mackerel

6) Bread, buns, bullas, biscuit and crackers

7) Sugar

8) Salt

9) Eggs

10) Patties

11) Rolled oats

12) Baking flour

13) Cooking oil

14) Syrup

15) Fish, cock and noodle soups

16) Animal feeds

17) Sanitary towels and tampons

18) Solar water heaters

19) Activities for which an admission is charged by any cultural or other organisation

20) The supply of sewerage disposal services

21) Services rendered by an undertaker in relation to burial or cremation, including the supply of coffin

Some items which will continue to be exempt from GCT

1) Milk - excluding condensed milk, powdered skimmed milk, milk-based products

2) Infant formulas

3) Rice

4) Counter flour

5) School uniforms

6) Drugs (specified items)

7) Contraceptive devices and substances

8) Printed matter (excluding newspapers, magazines, periodicals and journals)

9) Stationery and educational apparatus and equipment which are used by educational institutions

10) Exercise books

11) travel tickets for international travel

12) Altar bread, matzos, unleavened bread

13) Bus and taxi fares

14) Rent for residential properties

15) Water (excluding bottled water) to the public

16) The payment of dividends and interest


http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20091218/lead/lead3.html

RichD
12-18-2009, 10:56 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CeaBee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

16) The payment of dividends and interest


</div></div> wonder what that one mean?

CeaBee
12-18-2009, 10:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CeaBee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

16) The payment of dividends and interest


</div></div> wonder what that one mean? </div></div>

there's already income tax on that...so i don't know what them mean either.

The <span style="font-weight: bold">payment</span> of...

Dr.Dudd
12-18-2009, 11:50 AM
Now s is dumb.
this is impossible to work.
Why would they agree with the IMF to a dumb idea as this?
lets see how many weeks this will go for.

It will end up like the increased taxes on motor vehicles.
I said it would end up with less revenue then.
and this will cost much more in riots and destruction of the country It is stupid idea.


I suppose they want to use the subsequent riot sas an excuse to further downgrade the economy when it drive away the tourists.

the crime rate that was engineered, and carried out through the policy was not effective enough at doing so.
<span style="font-size: 17pt"> the high crime rate is a design. </span>
Not the fault of the criminals. they know that starving people will find means of eating. .


they should have gone to the Chinese.

The IMF is simply a tool to weaken the economies of colonies so that the colonial master are able to maintain control over them.
Jamaica is simply being returned to the fold of colonialism.

they admit that the Jamaican economic paradigm is flawed, but the changes they are attempting to make does nothing about the problem other than worsen it.

I suppose they want to get us to the point where they can introduce the project where they take over the country and turn it in a <span style="font-weight: bold"> prosperous city </span>
They will just own and control overtly what they have been doing covertly

Gen
12-18-2009, 11:54 AM
<span style="font-style: italic">transferring to Politrix </span>

RichD
12-18-2009, 11:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

they should have gone to the Chinese.

</div></div> i agree with you there....but what did they have to offer the chinese?

Dr.Dudd
12-18-2009, 12:21 PM
this is the mistake most people make when evaluating the negotiating value of Jamaica .
What can the offer?
Jamaica is much more valuable to the Chinese and Japanese than the west have led you to believe.

the difference is that Jamaica Have a lot lot of suppressed capabilities. the have been suppressed.
because the west does not want them to be developed with credit and profit going to the type of people that have the capabilities.
It is more about what it will do to the long taught myths they have based their economies on.
Siemens gave Northern Caribbean University over US15 million dollars in grant.
Just think about it.
we have what it take to be world beater in economics too not just other areas. it is just that we are not allowed the opportunity to <span style="font-weight: bold">benefit from it</span>.
that is why you don't see it., If all Jamaican were equally allowed the opportunity to <span style="font-weight: bold">benefit </span> from the products of their capabilities, they country would be one of the wealthiest.
Did you know that the is a mathematical principle that allow a person to trade foreign exchange and <span style="font-weight: bold">never lose </span>?
that is what they want from Smith. that is whati hope he never give up.
Jamaicans believe it is better for no one to benefit from their production, than for others to benefit, while they suffer.
The Chinese does not believe in suppressing people just to amass all and keep them in slavery. irrespective of what they people may think.
The west knows that if Jamaicans are economically strong , it will motivate the African continent. They don't want to lose the African continent.
So they cannot afford black Jamaicans to have real economic power.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

they should have gone to the Chinese.

</div></div> i agree with you there....but what did they have to offer the chinese? </div></div>

Wahalla
12-18-2009, 12:50 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

they should have gone to the Chinese.

</div></div> i agree with you there....but what did they have to offer the chinese? </div></div>

why to get more loans ???? The chinese model of aid is they dont give cash they tend to give infra structure projects ... ie like the stadia they built for the cricket world cup.. They literally ship in everything including workers...

Peasie
12-18-2009, 12:57 PM
<span style="font-size: 14pt">How do they collect taxes from, say, vendors in the market? Or the so-called informal sector?</span>

CeaBee
12-18-2009, 12:58 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt">How do they collect taxes from, say, vendors in the market? Or the so-called informal sector?</span> </div></div>

speak up ...i caan hear u http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/70456-eyebrows.gif

is the same question Omar Davies was asking, and one article tell u seh that buying directly from the farmer don't exempt u from GCT. I don't know the answer either.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Almost like a recurring decimal, Davies again told the Government that this new tax package was not credible. He had expressed this view twice during the Budget Debate earlier this year and at the presentation of the Supplementary Estimates.

Commenting on items removed from the exemption list, Davies questioned how the tax would be collected on fresh fruits and vegetables.

&quot;I would like to see the GCT man go down to Coronation Market and collect the tax,&quot; he said.</div></div>

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20091218/lead/lead6.html

Dr.Dudd
12-18-2009, 12:58 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

they should have gone to the Chinese.

</div></div> i agree with you there....but what did they have to offer the chinese? </div></div>

why to get more loans ???? The chinese model of aid is they dont give cash they tend to give infra structure projects ... ie like the stadia they built for the cricket world cup.. They literally ship in everything including workers... </div></div>


They had to use their own workers in some instances. they use a lot of Jamaicasn ther was even a strike, when they tried to lay off jamaicans when the work was winding down.
There is nothing that the IMF is willing to do that is w0rth a national irrigation scheme.

it really does not even matter if the Chinese build it. as long as the country have the use of it.
after that.
the country will not have to worry about loans. whether it is cash or not.

Dr.Dudd
12-18-2009, 01:08 PM
Why not more loans?
What have you ever done of significance without a loan.
It is not the loan that is the problem.

is what it is used for, and the rate of intrtest.
you can see that it was designed my the IMF , to make sure that the country fail.
and then never received the amount they signed up for.

It is a common ruse the IMF use They promise a figure,and have the country paying for it.
then give then conditions that are impossible to accomplish, and as the country fail they get lower amount.

So they end up with lower economic standard and still own all this ,money. It have nothing to do with the benefit of the country .
It is all about the donor countries. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CeaBee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt">How do they collect taxes from, say, vendors in the market? Or the so-called informal sector?</span> </div></div>

speak up ...i caan hear u http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/70456-eyebrows.gif

is the same question Omar Davies was asking, and one article tell u seh that buying directly from the farmer don't exempt u from GCT. I don't know the answer either.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Almost like a recurring decimal, Davies again told the Government that this new tax package was not credible. He had expressed this view twice during the Budget Debate earlier this year and at the presentation of the Supplementary Estimates.

Commenting on items removed from the exemption list, Davies questioned how the tax would be collected on fresh fruits and vegetables.

&quot;I would like to see the GCT man go down to Coronation Market and collect the tax,&quot; he said.</div></div>

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20091218/lead/lead6.html </div></div>

Gen
12-18-2009, 01:12 PM
they don't. the compliance rate for the self employed is very low.

the govt also loses a lot of revenue to the underground economy as well.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt">How do they collect taxes from, say, vendors in the market? Or the so-called informal sector?</span> </div></div>

RichD
12-18-2009, 01:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they don't. the compliance rate for the self employed is very high.

the govt also loses a lot of revenue to the underground economy as well.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt">How do they collect taxes from, say, vendors in the market? Or the so-called informal sector?</span> </div></div> </div></div> you mean very low?

they say as much as 50% of the jamaican economy is underground.

julie*mango
12-18-2009, 01:19 PM
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs087.snc3/15463_376457970362_562590362_10195858_2987206_n.jp g

Peasie
12-18-2009, 01:22 PM
Sorry I didn't read the articles - they were over three sentences http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/blush.gif

Well then, this is not going to work is it? More people will go &quot;underground&quot; then. The overtaxed will revolt. Lawks.

Gen
12-18-2009, 01:22 PM
http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/grin.gif yes mi mean low as in nuhbaddy nah pay taxes

mi cold dats why mi mix it up \0/


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they don't. the compliance rate for the self employed is very high.

the govt also loses a lot of revenue to the underground economy as well.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt">How do they collect taxes from, say, vendors in the market? Or the so-called informal sector?</span> </div></div> </div></div> you mean very low?

they say as much as 50% of the jamaican economy is underground.

</div></div>

Ja. Jewel
12-18-2009, 09:44 PM
What happen to property taxes?...I know mine are almost ridiculously low....what about all those big Spanish hotel owners &amp; the big pieces of land they own? Govt. needs to reevaluate all property values &amp; collect accordingly....at least that seems more fair to me. Having a 17.5% tax on almost ALL food items is going to hurt all economic levels in Ja....poor people the worst....everybody gotta eat!

I just saw this news today and am http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/70402-thinking.gif....about how to decrease our HUGE JPS bill and how to cut down on purchasing of food....doesn't help anymore to NOT BUY IMPORTED FOOD, BECAUSE every ITEM WILL BE TAXED! http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/eek2.gif http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif

RichD
12-18-2009, 10:34 PM
what do you call low?

Ja. Jewel
12-18-2009, 10:55 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what do you call low? </div></div>

under $100US a year

RichD
12-18-2009, 10:57 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ja. Jewel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what do you call low? </div></div>

under $100US a year </div></div> that is low...a few years ago my parents taxes were increased form $1700 to $350,000 in one swoop ..they had to appeal and it settled at about $75,000

Peasie
12-18-2009, 10:59 PM
Same thing happened to my mother, RichD. http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/70394-bawlout.gif

Ja. Jewel
12-18-2009, 11:07 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ja. Jewel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what do you call low? </div></div>

under $100US a year </div></div> that is low...a few years ago my parents taxes were increased form $1700 to $350,000 in one swoop ..they had to appeal and it settled at about $75,000 </div></div>

That is pretty scary! http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/eek2.gif...how did they come up with that huge figure and how did they go down to $75,000?....guess maybe Trelawny is not one of the parishes that they are re-evaluating so quickly, but now with the new cruise ship port happening in Falmouth the govt. may make a push to pay some attention to Trelawny.....scary!

As I said, what about those big Spanish hotels?....anyone know if they get some kind of a tax break?

Dr.Dudd
12-18-2009, 11:10 PM
they will pay more than that for private security for the year though??
They are willing to underfund the government, but pay private corporations to supply what would have been cheaper and effective if supplied on a an national basis. remind me of thetown that voted down 1/2% taxes only to be charged 20% on their insurance. many time s more . the next year they vote the taxes, but the insurance hasn't been reduced yet. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Same thing happened to my mother, RichD. http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/70394-bawlout.gif </div></div>

RichD
12-18-2009, 11:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ja. Jewel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

As I said, what about those big Spanish hotels?....anyone know if they get some kind of a tax break? </div></div> im sure they do...to encourage the investment..but remember they pay room taxes

basint1
12-19-2009, 03:02 AM
Uprising &quot;soon come&quot; to my favorite Island http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/proud_jamaica.gif

Get up Stand Up!

17.5% Sales tax is total bulldung. And it should never be on any food stuff. They should charge a flat $50-$100 tourist entry tax to get needed monies.

andronian2
12-19-2009, 08:59 AM
What I find interesting is that rice an flour weh wi import nuh attract GCT but ground provision, yam, dasheen, an coco, weh wi can grow wiself attract GCT.
Den if people can buy rice cheapa dan dem can buy yam dunga Coro weh yu tink dem ago do?
So yu nuh si seh dis tax package more likely fi kill off wi local food production further?

That's why I really feel that this is part of IMF dictates and part of the reason why the loan was put off was to ensure that the government took the marching orders and implemented the decided taxation regime.
The IMF is really a tool of direct control by economic means and their aim has generally been to destroy local industries and open up markets to imports from multinational corporations.
Note also, that the government has announced a wage freeze on all public sector jobs.

Amberal37
12-19-2009, 08:34 PM
The imports already attract customs duties.

Let's face it - money has to come from somewhere.

This is a great start for the government to formalise the &quot;informal&quot; market.

Higglers that claim they don't sell will have to pay over their 17.5%, the fishermen will pay over their 17.5% and the farmers will pay over their 17.5% - ONLY WHEN THEY SELL IT!

This will help to fund the cost of running the country, and the extra monitoring officers will be a bit of extra cost to make sure that more people are complying.

Currently with income tax - everybody can lie about their profit and their amount of income. GCT is an &quot;easier&quot; tax for the government to source.

And - irrespective of IMF - Jamaica NEEDS better economic control.

Wage freeze is a good thing - keeps the current bill down, and doesn't feed into inflation - which will serve NOBODY well.
(If you look at more advanced economies such as Ireland - you will see that public servants have taken a wage <span style="text-decoration: underline">cut</span> - so we should leave out the victim mentality here - too much of it will kill us!)

Dr.Dudd
12-19-2009, 10:14 PM
Nonsense.

Peasie
12-19-2009, 10:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: karigeni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a great start for the government to formalise the &quot;informal&quot; market.

Higglers that claim they don't sell will have to pay over their 17.5%, the fishermen will pay over their 17.5% and the farmers will pay over their 17.5% - ONLY WHEN THEY SELL IT!

This will help to fund the cost of running the country, and the extra monitoring officers will be a bit of extra cost to make sure that more people are complying.</div></div>

Are you being sarcastic? http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

halfwaytree
12-19-2009, 11:17 PM
This new measure will only serve to increase the black market activity to circumvent the high tax rate.

andronian2
12-20-2009, 01:30 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: karigeni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The imports already attract customs duties.

Let's face it - money has to come from somewhere.
</div></div>

But not from the impoverished people.
How yu gwine squeeze water from a stone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This is a great start for the government to formalise the &quot;informal&quot; market.
</div></div>

Well if dem fi formalize it dem fi formalize it.
Increasing taxes is not formalizing it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Higglers that claim they don't sell will have to pay over their 17.5%, the fishermen will pay over their 17.5% and the farmers will pay over their 17.5% - ONLY WHEN THEY SELL IT!

This will help to fund the cost of running the country, and the extra monitoring officers will be a bit of extra cost to make sure that more people are complying.

Currently with income tax - everybody can lie about their profit and their amount of income. GCT is an &quot;easier&quot; tax for the government to source.

</div></div>

First of all, GCT is not 'easier' to collect on some of the silly things that it has been applied to.
The informal sector is still the informal sector.
Even if vendors collect 17.5% more from customers fi buy yam, an coco who is going to ensure the goverment gets its cut?
Government know how much coco an yam roadside vendor sell?

And as you rightly state, even if tax compliance were 100%, the government only gets tax on what sells.
Oppressive taxation resulting in higher costs will cause people to penny pinch and buy less.
So poor people have less to eat and government doesn't get much more revenue as the higher tax rate is offset by lowered economic activity.

IIRC, this is not the first supplemental budget where taxes have been raised.
All have fallen short of projected revenue because of a combination of poor compliance and reduced spending.
So farmer yam an coco gwine spoil and government gwine scratch dem head again wondering weh di extra tax revenue gone.
Basically, the government's stategy has been counterproductive and silly...they should know to try something new by now.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And - irrespective of IMF - Jamaica NEEDS better economic control.
</div></div>

But taking the little money people have out of their hands to pay external debt is not the better economic control Jamaica needs.
Taxing locally grown produce and threatening local agriculture is not a way to make jobs.
Do you know that many of the developed countries that lecture poor countries about Free Trade subsidize their farmers.
OTOH, Jamaica tax fertilizer etc. and now ago tax the raw produce fi further put it out of people reach.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Wage freeze is a good thing - keeps the current bill down, and doesn't feed into inflation - which will serve NOBODY well.
(If you look at more advanced economies such as Ireland - you will see that public servants have taken a wage <span style="text-decoration: underline">cut</span> - so we should leave out the victim mentality here - too much of it will kill us!) </div></div>

Ireland's economy is not what it used to be but that is besides the point.
The government wouldn't be so hypocritical if they weren't also raising taxes and if the leaders who are imposing harsh sacrifices on everyone didn't get payed more out of the public coffers than any other similarly sized group.

Dr.Dudd
12-20-2009, 01:57 AM
You have lots of patience. the poster is a troll.
How are they to evaluate the value on ground provision that is sold in the informal market?
How will they get people who it cost them as much expenses as theiri sales to collect and pay over GTC?

How are these people going to calculate 171/2% taxes. They can't even count money in many cases.
How are they going to increase the cost of living by at least 20%.
not to mention the cost of transport, with the gas taxes increase, and the cost of every single thing?

My question is how long will it be before the first riots.

I guess about January when the kids are supposed to go back to school.
and all hell broke loose after that.
They are going to destroy tourism.
the only other sector that show some life.
Since the riots will change the market instantly.
i suppose they want to shunt the tourists to some other destination. It
It is better to forget the IMF. And go it alone.
It won't be any harder.
although it will be very hard.
The country won't be able to get loans under the IMF anyway.
Other than what they want to lend to private corporations so that they can charge Jamaicans to use facillities that their taxes are paying for.

this is the most s corrupt system in economics. It is worse than the wall st criminals.
They are using deceit to destroy the wealth of third world,and making it cheap for colonial to takeover.
It is no different from what they did to Haiti and most of Africa

andronian2
12-20-2009, 02:30 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

My question is how long will it be before the first riots.
</div></div>

God question dat.
I was in Jamaica in the late 90s when the gas riots so it is very possible.
Like you, I'm guessing that riots will commence when the new measures begin to take effect in January.
Jamaicans have a 'take things as they come' attitude that will keep down the protests until then.
I think the level of chaoos will depend on how much silent non-compliance there is.

Basic produce is the raw material for so many processed foods so the expenses will trickle down everywhere.
Not only patty attract GCT but the eggs and meat in it attracted GCT and will add to the cost.
This is the most irresponsible and heartless tax package from any government since I know Jamaica.

andronian2
12-20-2009, 07:06 AM
Mi hear dem a seh now that it don't apply to vendors:
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Market-vendors-say-new-tax-measures-will-bring-harsh-times

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
&quot;Farmers and vendors who operate within the local markets will not be affected by the GCT increase as they fall below the $3-million GCT threshold,&quot; Shaw told the Sunday Observer.

&quot;For avoidance of doubt, they [vendors] are neither to pay nor charge any GCT,&quot; Shaw added, pointing out that if the food items were bought at places such as supermarkets GCT would apply.

The Tax Administration Services Department also reinforced the point in a news release Friday in which it said that only businesses with projected sales over the GCT threshold of $3 million and which are registered taxpayers will be required to charge GCT.

&quot;Therefore, business persons such as small farmers, market and roadside vendors and other small operators, whose projected annual sales are below the $3-million GCT threshold and are not registered, will not be required to collect GCT,&quot; the department said.
</div></div>

Amberal37
12-20-2009, 07:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have lots of patience. the poster is a troll.
</div></div>

Oh please!!you're more of troll than I am...If you see my history of posts you'll see what I've posted on before - also same reason why I largely ignore these threads - if only could get decent logic out of the discussions! http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/70400-talktohand.gif

...Besides the point...

Well, quite sensibly the paper today say's there's a threshold of ja$3m - so the low earners have nothing to worry about do they?

Why I mentioned about formalising the informal economy, is because the previous exemptions made it EASY for everybody to avoid the taxes. Bringing more items in, gives the government a good means to set up the control systems so they can really monitor what is happening, and widen the tax net where it is valid.
And why should the government NOT look at means to discourage imports?? OR at the very least - earn enough from the practice in order to set up systems to compensate for the disadvantage to it's economy?
(in case you guys can't work out the disadvantages: lower job creation, outflow of foreign currency, skills compromise).

What I see here is a lot of complaining and grandstanding - Please tell me- how can a government continue to borrow in perpetuity without setting up a means of replacent?

Dr.Dudd
12-20-2009, 11:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: karigeni</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have lots of patience. the poster is a troll.
</div></div>

Oh please!!you're more of troll than I am...If you see my history of posts you'll see what I've posted on before - also same reason why I largely ignore these threads - if only could get decent logic out of the discussions! http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/70400-talktohand.gif
<span style="color: #FF0000">Me I am the troll! OK. .. I'm convinced </span>

...Besides the point...

Well, quite sensibly the paper today say's there's a threshold of ja$3m - so the low earners have nothing to worry about do they?
<span style="color: #FF0000">If you have to see that in the paper before you realize that the policy you stoutly support require that threshold, to even be considered as plausible come to adjust, how should your support of the the policy be treated? </span>

Why I mentioned about formalising the informal economy, is because the previous exemptions made it EASY for everybody to avoid the taxes.
Bringing more items in, gives the government a good means to set up the control systems so they can really monitor what is happening, and widen the tax net where it is valid.
And why should the government NOT look at means to discourage imports??
OR at the very least - earn enough from the practice in order to set up systems to compensate for the disadvantage to it's economy?
(in case you guys can't work out the disadvantages: lower job creation, outflow of foreign currency, skills compromise).


<span style="color: #FF0000">so you suggest formalizing the informal economy?
and you believe that by placing untenable taxes on it will formalize it?
What about the formal economy that only pay 45% of their taxable income?
Hoe come formalization did not result in compliance??
And how does your the policy you so laudably support, increase jobs, and staunch the outflow of foreign currency?
support </span>

What I see here is a lot of complaining and grandstanding - Please tell me- how can a government continue to borrow in perpetuity without setting up a means of replacement?
</div></div><span style="color: #FF0000"> Of Course that is what you see..

The problem is that our vision is coloured by our lenses.

What You see say more about you ability, than it does about what is there.

next time use a dictionary when you read the post.
you don't need a tsarus though.
we keep our vocab here at grammar school level.</span>

Amberal37
12-20-2009, 12:53 PM
Don't use &quot;z&quot; British english - but honestly care not to take grammer and such like, too seriously posting here http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/grin.gif

I rushed in on responding to the thread, although I had read the article and earlier articles (JIS/Gleaner/Observer) this week - but it doesn't change what I wrote.

Point is, in order to establish the threshold - they have to monitor.
There are also new measures that will help, not least ones like these:
<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">JAM-IS (http://www.ja-mis.com/CompanionSite/reportviewer_shopping.aspx) </span></span>

Dr.Dudd
12-20-2009, 04:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: karigeni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't use &quot;z&quot; British english - but honestly care not to take grammer and such like, too seriously posting here http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/grin.gif

I rushed in on responding to the thread, although I had read the article and earlier articles (JIS/Gleaner/Observer) this week - but it doesn't change what I wrote.

Point is, in order to establish the threshold - they have to monitor.
There are also new measures that will help, not least ones like these:
<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">JAM-IS (http://www.ja-mis.com/CompanionSite/reportviewer_shopping.aspx) </span></span> </div></div>
That is what impresses you?
I will wager you are personally involved in agricultural, or agro industry.
i have a question for you.
Do you think that Jamaica can develop a profitable industrial sector without electric or other reliable energy source??


So why do you think that Jamaica can ever develop a sustainable and profitable agri-industry without a national irrigation scheme?

If the government do not facilitate the industry, how does it expect to collect taxes from the returns?
Life is not only about what other people write.
it is about reality that the majority of so called analysts, are blind to.
reason is that they do no primary research them selves. they glean from others and put a story together. and since the majority of readers are not skilled at analysis themselves they accept the stories are reality
The skills required for nation building, Jamaica does not prepare the citizens for it. As a result it is still a colonial economy that is saddled with a system that export the value added aspect of it's primary products. Jamaica is in this economic bind because it's economy is not designed to benefit the country. It is in reality a farm colony,that primarily produce raw materials for foreign industries,and make nothing in the process. Ir is on it's was to becoming Nauru.g