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britisha
01-03-2010, 02:06 PM
but alas, none exists...

Isn't this the same cry since I was a girl? (http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/West-Kingston-Feature03-01-10)

People of the middle and lower strata in the society always complained of a lack of adequate employment opportunities, but obviously more so in the poorer communities, especially in Kingston, the CAPITAL...well....

What is puzzling is the promises made by the same ho-hum politrixians who never deliver on them. [still yet these people vote for them and don't hold them accountable] Why cannot they, the trixians, regard entrepreneurship seriously? How do they imagine that these vendors will attract sales and thereby increase their bottom line in deplorable conditions as these?

Fram mi a suhmall gurl a Kingston, mi used to kick banana thrash wid mi foot in front of vendors' establishments an jump ovah stinking stagnant watah innah di streets downtown Kingston..and now, in the year of our Lord, 2010 it is wursurah? Duhh!!!

Even near Gaawd'n House, things were NOT a pretty sight, right near Beeston Street dere, but how can a government, or how can governments of either stripe allow a capital city to deteriorate to such a low?


<span style="font-weight: bold">WHERE IS THE NATIONAL PRIDE THAT WE SING, LOVE TO BRAG ABOUT, DAILY?</span>

As the piece suggests, there is a division between &quot;followers&quot; of both major parties, and within the &quot;leadership&quot; of both AS WELL, WHICH WOULD SEEM TO BE THE DETERMINING FACTOR THAT DECIDES HOW SCARCE RESOURCES ARE ALLOCATED, AND IN SO DOING.. people's civil rights are stifled because they might prefer another party over the one in power.. http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/70394-bawlout.gif

<span style="font-weight: bold">Old habits never die</span> an ie look like seh is a vicious cycle, like child abuse and incest in a family [local or farrin http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/dizzy.gif] that need radical intervention to make &quot;it go away..&quot;

Who will bell the cat?

britisha
01-03-2010, 02:25 PM
...an duh !! duh!! for those waiting in the wings to remind me of which politrixians mash hup Jamaica, aldoah mi &quot;indict&quot; them so to speak, the gist of this thread is to see hiff we can come up with suggestions for people to see themselves as &quot;people&quot; [as the man suggested] and not &quot;party-ites&quot; who suck salt through wooden spoons hiff dem paawty nat in power, to dole out likkle dis an dat, as 'payback&quot; for their loyalty.

In other word, can we shake the &quot;vestiges of 'tribalism'&quot; aldoa/and is ongle in Jamaica I've heard that descriptive political terminology used.. Can we unite under the black/gold and green, and say &quot;country first&quot; an tuh hell wid &quot;political parties?&quot; [hiff they can be called that] and DEMAND THAT these politrixians be more accountable and responsible? http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/70402-thinking.gif

&quot;Town people a lose hout big time&quot;...for when yuh si mi goh home di lass time, an mi noh goh a mi baawn grung, BUT stay pan di Naawt Coast, whey mi spen whole heap a ducats, due to FEAR and disgust,...in essence, hiff odda Jamaicans and even farreignahs behave the same way, it is indirectly an injustice, for Kingston vendors, many of whom are born there as compared to <span style="font-weight: bold">foreign-owned</span> business on the Nawwt Coast.. nat reaping any of the proffitts from &quot;tuhrism&quot;....nat getting a slice of di pie.. http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/mad2.gif

Are we as a people willing to look at ourselves squarely and fairly, and see the ruination that we indirectly are bringing on ourselves? Outsiders come into our country and make more money--&gt; %tage profits, than the people whey baawn deh? Could this happen say, to play devil's advocate, in China?


A which Sankie sing soh?

**Operative word %tage.. http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/70459-lyad.gif




...eta, an yes,mi know seh a China own the US now.. http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/dizzy.gif due to investments and loans but mi 'ope nohbaddie noh construe seh a dat type of %tage praffit mi a talk bout..an duh leff Koobah houttah di equation...is nat di same kekkle of fish...ope mi covahed all bases..

Tuff Gong
01-03-2010, 08:01 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is puzzling is the promises made by the same ho-hum politrixians who never deliver on them. [still yet these people vote for them and don't hold them accountable] Why cannot they, the trixians, regard entrepreneurship seriously? How do they imagine that these vendors will attract sales and thereby increase their bottom line in deplorable conditions as these?</div></div>

Fair questions but it not as easy as it seems.
If you are going to find a one answer soluton blame the Comrades.
If you are going to go indebt then you have to take the uniqueness of the problem into consideration.
Bascially this it West Kingston but the JLP only control two maybe three populated areas, the reast have basically been in a violent struggle with the JLP MP since te 70s.

It is not fair to say there was no money spent. Let say Eddie spent millions on dollars on the three areas he controlled and did absoutely nothing for the other sections that were at odds with him. You must overstand that the Comrades spent billions trying to overthrow him, but if anything this proves one thing one rose might suvive in the most inhospitable climate but it hardley likely that a whole rose garden will.

Add to is the fact that it is impossible to espect Government or even the MP to come in and fix your fence, build your sanitary facilities, send your kids to school and find each person a job which is basically what the residents are calling for.

Here is one of the major problems that will keep the denzings of West Kingston and all slums barefoot and hungry:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">From Tivoli to Matthew's Lane the cry is the same</span>

...'Unemployment nuff. People waan work but nuh work nuh deh'

BY KIMONE THOMPSON Features Editor- Sunday [email protected]

Sunday, January 03, 2010

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">&quot;Is not all of them want to sit down,&quot; adds a middle-aged woman who declines giving her name. &quot;They want work but because of where they live, they can't get any. They [potential employees] always say they will call you back but never call. My son go look work nuff time and is dat dem tell him, seh is because of where him live. So di yout' dem frustrated.&quot;[/</span>quote]

This is one of the most telling aspect of the article and the Newspaper just glance over it as if it was nothing. Basically if the private sector refuses to employ Jamaicans because of their Postal Code the Government of Jamaica would have to wet-nurse them from cradle to grave.

The second most important part of this equation:

[quote]It is this division, according to several people to whom the Sunday Observer spoke, that is preventing development and holding the communities back.

In a busy bar on Luke Lane, part of the PNP-affiliated Matthew's Lane sector, two men sum up the conditions of their neighbourhood.

&quot;From Rose lane go back dem [the MP] fixing di fence dem but dem not doing it roun' here. What dem doing for we roun' here? Ah people weh go foreign and have some money come back and develop the community [by building] park and ball field and dem ting deh,&quot; says one of them who declines giving his name.

&quot;We want dem stop deal wid people like dis,&quot; adds the other man, who initially gives then withdraws his name. &quot;We ah people man, di whole a we ah people. We ah nuh Labourite nor PNP. All dem doing now is to divide and conquer and we don't need that. We need to unite as black people.&quot;</div></div>

The odinary man in the streets will say that to Newspaper but at night time it is completely different. the Division is there, it real and it not been maintained by the MP but by the folks who live and die in West Kingston and the their spokespersons in the Media. Until they lay down their arms against Tivoli don't expect that anything will change. They have cast their lot with corrupt leadership of the Comrade PNP. I heard Mr. Golding and record saying he know they will not vote for him but he has decided to treat them just the same.

As one wise MP once said it takes cash to care after 18 years of Comrade Thievery it hardly likely that there is must to go around even if the MP was Mother Teresa. I am sure for 18 year many loyalists in Tivoli, Denham town and some parts of Fletchers Land could not dependent on the Comrade Government for jack and it was the President that they looked to.

The next bit of evidence that keep being swept under the pile comes from this quote:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In Hannah Town, a small community adjoining Denham Town, residents say the HEART training facility that once operated in their community centre needs to be reinstituted if the many unemployed and unattached youth are to come off the streets.</div></div>

Oh so the former MP (yes the one who invented HEART) did build something....what happened to it.....Of course the Comrades mash it up just like they mash up so many other things not least the economy.

I think the Media must be truthful. the only reason they went is to see if they can keep the Dudus Story burning bus a one said:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">We are Jamaicans... not PNP or JLP</span>

Bruce Golding - Member of Parliament, Kingston western
Sunday, January 03, 2010

DENNIS ADAIR, HIGGLER, TIVOLI GARDENS

Him mek a whole heap ah likkle ting change up. Him put in some

street lights and do some roadwork and him ah sponsor to the community,

<span style="font-family: 'Arial'">but ah di president me rate</span></div></div>

Dr.Dudd
01-03-2010, 09:19 PM
This is funny....
so ther are uniqueness involve with this,situation. a situation involving constituencies withing a parish.
but no uniqueness to be recognized, between Jamaica and the city-state, that is half way cross the globe, ruled by a despot, and with an American military base,generating half it's income.

Tuff Gong
01-03-2010, 10:07 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is funny....
so ther are uniqueness involve with this,situation. a situation involving constituencies withing a parish.
but no uniqueness to be recognized, between Jamaica and the city-state, that is half way cross the globe, ruled by a despot, and with an American military base,generating half it's income. </div></div>

LOL Wat T F you on about? This post is about <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Kinsgston West </span>in <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Jamaica</span>. What freaking country are you talking about and where did I make a comment(s) that that would lead you to post this nonsense as a response to what I wrote above?

britisha
01-03-2010, 10:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

LOL Wat you on about? This post is about <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Kinsgston West </span>in <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Jamaica</span>. What freaking country are you talking about and where did I make a comment(s) that that would lead you to post this nonsense as a response to what I wrote above? </div></div>

Aye TG, I was ovah here LOL'ing miself, mussie my alluding to China that warranted that.. http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/dizzy.gif .anihoo...

Dr.Dudd
01-03-2010, 10:21 PM
Singapore that's the city state i am referring to.
that you are always quick to compare,without accepting that they are 2 separate and unique circumstances<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is funny....
so ther are uniqueness involve with this,situation. a situation involving constituencies withing a parish.
but no uniqueness to be recognized, between Jamaica and the city-state, that is half way cross the globe, ruled by a despot, and with an American military base,generating half it's income. </div></div>

LOL Wat T F you on about? This post is about <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Kinsgston West </span>in <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Jamaica</span>. What freaking country are you talking about and where did I make a comment(s) that that would lead you to post this nonsense as a response to what I wrote above? </div></div>

Tuff Gong
01-03-2010, 10:34 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Singapore that's the city state i am referring to.
that you are always quick to compare,without accepting that they are 2 separate and unique circumstances[</div></div>

You know what, you really need to get you head checked.
I made zero comparison just now to Singapore and I have no knowledge of what you are talking about.
Would you please furnish a quote along with the context and we can go from there. Please!

britisha
01-03-2010, 11:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Fair questions but it not as easy as it seems.
If you are going to find a one answer solution blame the Comrades.
If you are going to go indebt then you have to take the uniqueness of the problem into consideration.
Basically this it West Kingston but the JLP only control two maybe three populated areas, the rest have basically been in a violent struggle with the JLP MP since te 70s.</div></div>

This I am going to leave on the backburner for a while.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It is not fair to say there was no money spent. Let say Eddie spent millions on dollars on the three areas he controlled and did absolute nothing for the other sections that were at odds with him. You must overstand that the Comrades spent billions trying to overthrow him, but if anything this proves one thing one rose might survive in the most inhospitable climate but it hardly likely that a whole rose garden will.</div></div>

...and this is one main part of the piece...no??<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Add to is the fact that it is impossible to expect Government or even the MP to come in and fix your fence, build your sanitary facilities, send your kids to school and find each person a job which is basically what the residents are calling for.</div></div>

I hear you. but I don't think this is what they are asking for, [although some fence fixing apparently went on ascarding to the piece] they want JOBS, which is a fair expectation [and especially most of the campaign promises LIE that they will find &quot;work&quot; especially for the &quot;youths&quot;] and if they cannot find a job, they want to be able to run their small businesses under fairly decent conditions rather than those which place them in jeopardy in addition to &quot;chasing&quot; away the potential customers.

Is that asking too much?<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Here is one of the major problems that will keep the denzings of West Kingston and all slums barefoot and hungry:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

This is one of the most telling aspect of the article and the Newspaper just glance over it as if it was nothing. Basically if the private sector refuses to employ Jamaicans because of their Postal Code the Government of Jamaica would have to wet-nurse them from cradle to grave.</div></div>

..and why is this still a problem? Denial of jobs based on the &quot;area&quot; where one resides?<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The second most important part of this equation:

&quot;<span style="font-weight: bold">It is this division, according to several people to whom the Sunday Observer spoke, that is preventing development and holding the communities back.</span></div></div>

Agreed.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


&quot;We want dem stop deal wid people like dis,&quot; adds the other man, who initially gives then withdraws his name. &quot;We ah people man,<span style="font-weight: bold"> di whole a we ah people.</span> We ah nuh Labourite nor PNP. All dem doing now is to divide and conquer and we don't need that. We need to unite as black people.&quot;</div></div>

The odinary man in the streets will say that to Newspaper but at night time it is completely different. the Division is there, it real and it not been maintained by the MP but by the folks who live and die in West Kingston and the their spokespersons in the Media. Until<span style="font-weight: bold"> they</span> lay down their arms against Tivoli don't expect that anything will change. They have cast their lot with corrupt leadership of the Comrade PNP. I heard Mr. Golding and record saying he know they will not vote for him but he has decided to treat them just the same.

As one wise MP once said it takes cash to care after 18 years of Comrade Thievery it hardly likely that there is must to go around even if the MP was Mother Teresa. I am sure for 18 year many loyalists in Tivoli, Denham town and some parts of Fletchers Land could not dependent on the Comrade Government for jack and it was the President that they looked to.</div></div>

...So in essence &quot;political &quot;tribalism&quot;&quot;&quot; ala Jamaican stylee is to be blamed for the demise that West Kingston is in....and... couldn't the same be said for all the other &quot;garrison&quot; type communities that have been &quot;neglected&quot; for want of a bettter word by the &quot;powahs dat be&quot; over the decades, and suffering the same fate, in terms of social and economic stagnation? <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The next bit of evidence that keep being swept under the pile comes from this quote:

&quot;In Hannah Town, a small community adjoining Denham Town, residents say the HEART training facility that once operated in their community centre needs to be reinstituted if the many unemployed and unattached youth are to come off the streets.&quot;<span style="font-style: italic">

Oh so the former MP (yes the one who invented HEART) did build something....what happened to it.....Of course the Comrades mash it up just like they mash up so many other things not least the economy.

I think the Media must be truthful. the only reason they went is to see if they can keep the Dudus Story burning bus a one said:</span>
[quote]
<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">We are Jamaicans... not PNP or JLP</span></div></div>

**chukkle,** so the media had another agenda? They really don't care what happens in the slunms huh?


In any case it is a good &quot;covah story&quot;... echoing what many have been saying for years; clearly giving a good indication/reminder why Kingston is in the shambles that it and suffering such economic blight.

Now, I see where you have interjected the two main parties and even went on to be specific with names...be that as it may, not to downplay your comments in any way [and in fact, I always learn from your posts] but to me, all that is now water under the bridge.

We have entered a new decade, and it is high time that politrixians of whaeva stripe be shamed and made to see the fruits of their &quot;labour&quot; in terms of the status quo in the &quot;Capital&quot;...and of course one side is blaming the other, which I think is crying over spilt milk....the only time IMO that blame should be mentioned here is to see how looking back, errors that were made in the name of &quot;tribalism&quot; can be averted and use the knowledge further to improve the socio-economic situation in Kingston.


so the question still stands..


Can we as a people become politically savvy and mature to overlook our political differences and join hands to [re]build the nation as a whole, but with special attention to Kingston, the Capital? Can we stop marginalising and being condescending to the poorer folks of Kingston, who through no fault of their own have been dealt a bad hand in the &quot;game' of life? Afterall, many of them if they had a choice they wouldn't choose to be born in the slums where poverty and just plain miserable hardship/&quot;survival&quot; is the way of life...


Can we come to grips with the understanding that Kingston is an &quot;appendage&quot; of Jamaica the body/whole, and if Kingston is<span style="font-style: italic"> diseased,</span> eventually, analogically speaking, this disease will manifest itself sooner or later in the entire country, which obviously is what is happening?

Can we as a people, honestly and truthfully http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif say that &quot;we are all in this together?&quot;

<span style="font-style: italic">When di rain fall

It noh fall pan wan man housetop</span>...<span style="font-weight: bold">RNM</span>


WE are too divided, for a ppl that sings &quot;ONE LOVE&quot;....and that is what is killing us an wi juss cyan't seet....even in &quot;politricks&quot; we deny what is rightfully due because of this...**sigh**

It is plausible that the poorer folks have caught on to what is wrong, have awakened and smelling the coffee and obviously, the politrixians are still sleeping at the helm....[no pun intended]

Smaddie help mi dung affah di soap bax fi now...oonoh walk good yaaah..


tbc

britisha
01-03-2010, 11:23 PM
A friendly reminder <span style="font-weight: bold">THIS THREAD IS ABOUT [WEST] KINGSTON, JAMAICA</span>..

tenk yuh..

Tuff Gong
01-04-2010, 12:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now, I see where you have interjected the two main parties and even went on to be specific with names...be that as it may, not to downplay your comments in any way [and in fact, I always learn from your posts] but to me, all that is now water under the bridge.</div></div>

This is to try to answer all the above. First off I am always of the opinion that you have to look at each situation uniquely. In some There are a number of Garrisons in Kingston, now in Jamaica all over.
There are reasons for those Garrisons even if we don't find them acceptable.

In Kingston West it is a little bit strange as the Sitting MP never really controlled the largest part of his Constituency there were only two or three areas under his control.
The fact that we are still talking about this and the fact that the Media approached the story in such a shoddy manner means it not water under the bridge.

Most of Jamaica's money was wasted on the so-called poor between Washington Boulevard and Rockfort Road.
There have been many projects were started, all or most of them have failed or was destroyed because of political wars and strife, most of it directed towards one man Eddie Seaga.
It is hardly likely that any MP is going to help his or her constituents in any way possible now based on the lack of resources.

It is much better for the MHRs to stop wet-nursing the so-called poor in these areas and convince them that doing for Jamaica will ultimately benefit them on an individual basis.
So stop building fences, providing housing, fix toilets with Jamaican or Foreign Taxpayers money.
The MPs can still try to send children to school, provide lunches, books and help the sick, dying and the old.

As they residents say, they can sleep with their doors open but sometimes the noise prevent them from sleeping.
This is the one of the reason they have an MP. To see that folks can live in communities, sleep comfortable in their own beds and move securely on roads and public transport that are suitable for human beings.

So Mr. Golding is failing in his job. He need to stop crime, convince Labourite and PNP to lay down arms (Again I hear him and I have the tape of him saying that he is helping the PNP Supporters as well as the Labourites) fix the roads, clean the gullies and to get his Minister of Labour to investigate cases where Jamaicans are not treated fairly when they go to seek employment.

Fixing one's fence and you can't or won't fix another <span style="font-style: italic">(for whatever reason)</span> will only give a. bias. lackey media something to write about and set one Constituent against another.

britisha
01-04-2010, 07:34 AM
..and I think that we are back at square 1...anihoo, thanks for your response TG...will follow this later as time permits....mi running now.

Wahalla
01-04-2010, 10:30 AM
There has been an over emphersis on investment in Kingston and other urban centers compared to rural areas...

Tuff Gong
01-04-2010, 05:25 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There has been an over emphersis on investment in Kingston and other urban centers compared to rural areas... </div></div>

Exactly and very little will survive and thrive in a war zone. When you have 18 years of Comrade Government whose policy caused the closure of almost 90% of all the factories in Jamaica (and about 99% in the KSAC, many in geographical area of centered around this article), pair that with one of the most reviled figure from the hated JLP as MHR for <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Kingston West</span>, it little wonder that there is massive unemployment and slums.

As I said the article is shoddy piece of Yellow Journalism from the Media House known for the Yellowest of Journalism practice in Jamaica.

britisha
01-05-2010, 03:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There has been an over emphersis on investment in Kingston and other urban centers compared to rural areas... </div></div>


On whose part?

britisha
01-05-2010, 03:57 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There has been an over emphersis on investment in Kingston and other urban centers compared to rural areas... </div></div>

Exactly and very little will survive and thrive in a war zone. When you have 18 years of Comrade Government whose policy caused the closure of almost 90% of all the factories in Jamaica (and about 99% in the KSAC, many in geographical area of centered around this article), pair that with one of the most reviled figure from the hated JLP as MHR for <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Kingston West</span>, it little wonder that there is massive unemployment and slums.

As I said the article is shoddy piece of Yellow Journalism from the Media House known for the Yellowest of Journalism practice in Jamaica. </div></div>
**chukkle***

Now that you have continued the mantra of who is to blame, can we step aside and be <span style="font-weight: bold">forgiving</span> and &quot;unite&quot; under the black/green and gold? Is that ever possible? Can we as a people become politically savvy and mature <span style="font-weight: bold">ENUFF</span> to overlook our political differences and join hands to [re]build the nation as a whole, but with special attention to Kingston, the Capital? Can we stop marginalising and being condescending to the poorer folks of Kingston, who through no fault of their own have been dealt a bad hand in the &quot;game' of life? .

Whether the piece is &quot;Yellow Journalism:&quot; is not pertinent to the discussion as far as I am concerned...bear in mind that you have indirectly <span style="font-weight: bold">confirmed</span> some of what is contained within....what does that say about your comments?

...so on what basis do you think the piece is not a true journalistic article?

btw, I see at the end of the article where the PM will offer a response to the piece in the same media, it will be very interesting to watch...

Tuff Gong
01-05-2010, 04:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whether the piece is &quot;Yellow Journalism:&quot; is not pertinent to the discussion as far as I am concerned...bear in mind that you have indirectly confirmed some of what is contained within....what does that say about your comments?
</div></div>

What I have confirmed/stated/ acknowledge is this:

A. Mr. Golding said he was going to take care of his Constituency regardless of who they voted for I heard i have on tape. He mentioned the same Community Center not yet finished that the residents mentioned.
They said he fixed some fences, they said he fixed the road. They said he visited some places, I head him saying that he went to visit the PNP section.

It has just been two years since he was elected, there is no money and the country is in a crises. They are lucky to see him in person given what he is facing. I think he needs to appoint a Constituency Manager other than the de facto Area-Leader to see about the visits because it hardly likely that the President is going to go to PNP Section, that has been shooting at TG for years to visit.

More, money much more money has been spent by the Comrades on their Comrades that a dime spent in Tivoli Gardens so it if happens that they are suffering then Newspaper needs to find out why. Mrs. Portia Simpson-Miller provided cover for all MHRs in Jamaica when she was asked why was her Constituency in such a poor state after being an its MHR for well over three decades. She said as an MP she had no power, no money to help her Constituents, no that she was Prime Minster it would be different.

If that was the case where was Eddie Blinds going to get money from? how would they expect Bruce that was out of Representational Politics for more than 10 years to change things overnight?
As to the argument about letting bygones be bygones. It is not that simple up till recently, even under the new JLP Government the Comrades were cheering when Tivoli Gardens came under attack by the State. So this argument about Election is over and now now everything is OK I don't buy. More than anything else what we should be cheering and marvel at is the fact that even the PNP Supporters have said they can sleep with their doors unlock (as if locking it was going to stop intruders).

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">BTW</span> I have already explained what I know will work. the MPs need to just call it a day and tell their citizens that individual expectations cannot be met as the focus must shift to all Jamaica. Get the crime down, Jamaicans Educated and allow the private sector to function.

johnnycakes
01-05-2010, 01:46 PM
&quot;BTW I have already explained what I know will work. the MPs need to just call it a day and tell their citizens that individual expectations cannot be met as the focus must shift to all Jamaica. Get the crime down, Jamaicans Educated and allow the private sector to function.&quot;


Yes Tuff Gong, what you suggest above MIGHT work except that Jamaica cannot get crime down as evidenced by history and the progression/worsening of crime. Education costs money which the GOJ is unwilling and/or unable to pay for.
The least likely to succeed of all your suggestions is &quot;to allow the private sector to function&quot;
Just who do you think has been running the economic show not only in Jamaica but in the U.S and around the world?

I don't know if you've noticed but there is a worldwide economic crisis, perhaps temporary, CAUSED by the big (private sector) financial institutions and , the globalization of private sector production, the effects of which are permanent.

Giving the private sector all power it wants is what is causing the problems. Ronald Reagan pushed what you suggested and we called it &quot;trickle down&quot; in that the building up of corporate interests was supposed to sift down to the poor and working people but the reality is that there was a trillion dollar shift in wealth from the poorest to the richest in the following 20 years.

The evils of poverty cannot be cured by capitalism since capitalism is the cause .

While the wealthy will always do well under capitalism, it is the poor and working man who is always getting squeezed and whose living standards are dropping steadily and now dramatically.

Poverty means a hard life in the richest countries but it means crime, desperation and death in the poorer countries.

Were it possible for there to be a cure for Jamaica's problems and Jamaica's leaders willing to do what would be needed, it would have been tried before.

There is no cure under the unelected dictatorship of the private sector.

What you can do and are exclusively doing is running around like a beheaded chicken. You don't know you're dead yet.

Bandages do not work on cancers and neither will any minor adjustments to the existing economic order.

The best analogy remains that anyone trying to reform capitalism/the private sector is like people rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

As a democratic socialist I wish I could say I am enjoying the collapse of capitalism but the suffering of the poor and the totally useless talk and thinking of people whose mindset is stuck in believing in a failed system is just too sad.

britisha
01-05-2010, 03:43 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr. Golding said he was going to take care of his Constituency regardless of who they voted for I heard i have on tape.</div></div>

Thanks for your response agen, TG...I am of the feeling that we are not coming from the same perspective, when dealing with the questions that I put forth...in any case, I find it sooo interesting that it would be found <span style="font-weight: bold">necessary</span> to make such a comment, by the person who made it.

Tuff Gong
01-05-2010, 08:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr. Golding said he was going to take care of his Constituency regardless of who they voted for I heard i have on tape.</div></div>

Thanks for your response agen, TG...I am of the feeling that we are not coming from the same perspective, when dealing with the questions that I put forth...in any case, I find it sooo interesting that it would be found <span style="font-weight: bold">necessary</span> to make such a comment, by the person who made it. </div></div> Why is not necessary?
There is war there is violence, there is division. Every month some talking-head jumps up to claim Mr. Golding is representing a Garrison Constituency and that the he had promises to dismantle Garrison.

So he said at the last Constituency conference what I think needed to be said. He said he know come election the PNP Supporters are not going to vote for him but he represents them just the same. Folks are free to drive or walk from and to opposing camps without fear of been killed. Contrast that with the surrounding Constituencies where even the folks of the same political stripe cannot cross arbitrary borders drawn street by street.

Wahalla
01-06-2010, 06:00 AM
on the part of all goverments..

here is my thing.. if tommoor a magical investor have say 5000 jobs.. Would the people in the so called ghetto be able to compete for these jobs ??? My anecdotal experience is there are a number of aquantances who have migrated to the kilsome and have got jobs: before they migrated.. despite having this reserviour of unemployed..

Would the young wanna be shottas have the skills to even get an entry level job... No one ever address the mobility out of the ghetto.. Do the majority live and die there ??? do many move out ????

Kilsome is a dead loss in terms of development.. it would take a minimum of a generation.

britisha
01-06-2010, 07:12 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">on the part of all goverments..

here is my thing.. if tommoor a magical investor have say 5000 jobs.. Would the people in the so called ghetto be able to compete for these jobs ??? My anecdotal experience is there are a number of aquantances who have migrated to the kilsome and have got jobs: before they migrated.. despite having this reserviour of unemployed..

Would the young wanna be shottas have the skills to even get an entry level job... No one ever address the mobility out of the ghetto.. Do the majority live and die there ??? do many move out ????

Kilsome is a dead loss in terms of development.. it would take a minimum of a generation. </div></div>

Interesting that you should say that also...you raised a good point about the ability to compete for jobs...<span style="font-weight: bold">but where are these phantom jobs? Where are they hiding?</span> Let's stick to the reality of what it is.


A remindah, many of those in Kilsome, no baawn dere, dem or dere fore-parents are bumpkins who leff home pursuing a better life, hoping for a slice of the <span style="font-weight: bold">imaginary pie</span> but eventually got dealt a bad hand as well...<span style="font-weight: bold">such fate does not discriminate</span>...ahhh...

..but... as owl time ppl seh <span style="font-weight: bold">wha noh dead, no dash whey</span>

will re-visit latayah..

Wahalla
01-06-2010, 02:42 PM
Jobs go where there are skills as well as low pay.. We cannot comptete with china against low pay.. We can if we have skills... That is another matter.. Jamaicans worker imho once trained can compete against all comers any where on the planet. Then why cant Jamaica compete for jobs ???? Doc makes the point repeatedly that ther is a plan to keep black people down why low skill workers are brought in from Dom ep india or china.. I dont buy that... I have faced the same crisis of getting skilled workers in areas of high unemployment in China and in various locales in Africa.. Not the same but similar... India has just changed the visa laws to try and make specialist skills be recruited locally.. I get contract offers in India still....

As for my friends who migrate to killsome.. Had the skills been available in Killsome among the ghetto youth then why do they get the job ???

I note there is a tendency for the ghetto to be veiwed as socially static there is no movemnent in or out... How much of the population are actually third of fouth generation ??? Howmany nmove up and out ward... ???? If one gets the skills and the Heart program did give some youths these skills do they move on ??? Is the population of the ghetto increasing relative to the rest of the population ??? I am not wise enough or familiar enough with the idea of ghetto to answer.. but it strikes me that tehre are issues that have been tarred with a simplistic brush...

johnnycakes
01-06-2010, 03:08 PM
Wahalla:
&quot;Jobs go where there are skills as well as low pay.. We cannot comptete with china against low pay.. We can if we have skills... That is another matter.. Jamaicans worker imho once trained can compete against all comers any where on the planet. Then why cant Jamaica compete for jobs ????&quot;

Wahalla,

I am in agreement with much of your first post on this thread but somewhat puzzled at the paragraph above.

If Jamaicans had the same skill levels to produce the same quality product as say Indians or Chinese, how can they then compete if the price for that product is higher because Jamaicans will not and cannot work for a dollar a day?

Didn't they close the Jockey/Haines factory for just that reason? The Jamaicans could certainly produce the clothing as well as the Chinese or Mexicans but not at the same cost.

Could you explain your reasoning?

britisha
01-07-2010, 07:38 AM
'ope I will get the time to respond as I really wish ie in more detail, but time is not cooperating in this department at all...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr. Golding said he was going to take care of his Constituency regardless of who they voted for I heard i have on tape.</div></div>


My reason for making the comment as to why is this statement EVEN necessary is simple...it is a GIVEN...that this is the &quot;expectation&quot; from <span style="font-weight: bold">ANY</span> government to &quot;take care&quot; of all it's citizens regardless of their political leanings/ideology/philosophy....<span style="font-weight: bold">ie function like &quot;govahment&quot;</span> in the true concept of the word... so making such a statement serves as a true testimony that there is/HAS been something seriously wrong all along, however it is perceived, and it is time to &quot;clean it up.&quot; (plain an simple in a nutshell)

tbc.

johnnycakes
01-07-2010, 01:24 PM
[
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr. Golding said he was going to take care of his Constituency regardless of who they voted for I heard i have on tape.</div></div>


My reason for making the comment as to why is this statement EVEN necessary is simple...it is a GIVEN...that this is the &quot;expectation&quot; from <span style="font-weight: bold">ANY</span> government to &quot;take care&quot; of all it's citizens regardless of their political leanings/ideology/philosophy....<span style="font-weight: bold">ie function like &quot;govahment&quot;</span> in the true concept of the word... so making such a statement serves as a true testimony that there is/HAS been something seriously wrong all along, however it is perceived, and it is time to &quot;clean it up.&quot; (plain an simple in a nutshell)



Ah Britisha,,
Is the light finally dawning?
Are you finally seeing that Mr Golding et al have only a distant second interest in taking care of the people?

Were that so he would be a democratic socialist.

As is he and all of the PNP and JLP support the unelected dictatorship of the business sector and the wealthy.

Like Tuff Gong he and they also believe in allowing the &quot;private sector&quot; to have a free hand and when that happens &quot;taking care of the people&quot; who only elected them takes a distant second place in their priorities.

I do not expect a response from you or Tuff Gong since you both have bought into that same mind set. You actually believe that the unelected dictatorship that is the rich and the corporate interests will do what is best for the common people; that the people whom you elect will serve God's creations; humankind and not mammon.

Time to wake up to reality isn't it?

britisha
01-09-2010, 11:33 AM
Laawd, mi finding some treasures dis mawning...ran into this by accident but it serves as a reminder of what governments' responsibilities are, as it pertains to each and every citizen on planet earth...dis in addition to the fact that Jamaica is a member of the United Nations, and thereby subscribes to all it's rules, regulations and Charter....here goes:

fram yahsoh (http://http://www.houseofbobo.com/JERUSALEMSCHOOLROOM)


<span style="font-style: italic">ARTICLE 25. (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.</span><span style="font-size: 20pt">
Agen, mi noh think anniboddie want govahment fi mind dem; at the same rate govahment shouldn' be a stumbling block innah di people's way...</span>...and this govahment is mentioned wid di handastanding dat it includes the one &quot;in powah&quot; alongside THE OPPOSITION...


mi soon cum back..

Tuff Gong
01-09-2010, 01:33 PM
I found the audio clips of Mr. Golding at his Constituency Conference saying what I think should be said to to all Jamaicans....not just his Constituents.

I will post them later after I upload them to YouTube.

Panajar
01-09-2010, 02:03 PM
The situation for the majority of Jamaicans will never change,even if Jamaica should discover one hundred oil fields with millions of barrels of oil, it would mean little of no difference for the masses.Just like how we have a billion dollar tourist industry and a billion dollar financial sector yet the average Jamaican barely benefit from these sectors.Some Jamaicans like to compare Jamaica to Singapore,but the revered president of Singapore ,in a recent interview, stressed that few countries can attain what his country was able to accomplish .He said a countries<span style="font-weight: bold"> CULTURE</span> would determine whether the country succeed or fail.We already that Jamaicans culture evolved out of slavery and colonialism.To succeed our culture need to evolve from one where we put minority groups in charge of our financial future .

Groups like the PSOJ and JEA has been able to &quot;CAPTURE&quot; the state for the benefit of a few .Successive governments JLP AND PNP bent over backwards to accommodate these people, at the expense of the majority of Jamaicans.Even Seaga was amazed that BOTH political parties accepted the recent Matalon tax plan.

If Marcus Garvey couldn't get the people to open their eyes,i think no one will be able to .The culture of looking to Masa to guide us because, &quot;dem know how fe run business&quot; will never change, <span style="font-weight: bold">IF GARVEY COULDN'T DO IT ,I DONT KNOW WHO CAN.
</span>

britisha
01-09-2010, 02:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The situation for the majority of Jamaicans will never change,even if Jamaica should discover one hundred oil fields with millions of barrels of oil, it would mean little of no difference for the masses.Just like how we have a billion dollar tourist industry and a billion dollar financial sector yet the average Jamaican barely benefit from these sectors.Some Jamaicans like to compare Jamaica to Singapore,but the revered president of Singapore ,in a recent interview, stressed that few countries can attain what his country was able to accomplish .He said a countries<span style="font-weight: bold"> CULTURE</span> would determine whether the country succeed or fail.We already that Jamaicans culture evolved out of slavery and colonialism.To succeed our culture need to evolve from one where we put minority groups in charge of our financial future .

Groups like the PSOJ and JEA has been able to &quot;CAPTURE&quot; the state for the benefit of a few .Successive governments JLP AND PNP bent over backwards to accommodate these people, at the expense of the majority of Jamaicans.Even Seaga was amazed that BOTH political parties accepted the recent Matalon tax plan.

If Marcus Garvey couldn't get the people to open their eyes,i think no one will be able to .The culture of looking to Masa to guide us because, &quot;dem know how fe run business&quot; will never change, <span style="font-weight: bold">IF GARVEY COULDN'T DO IT ,I DONT KNOW WHO CAN.
</span>
</div></div>

You could have spared us... you said this before... http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

<span style="font-weight: bold">We</span> need &quot;new blood&quot; in a tired system..-

Dr.Dudd
01-09-2010, 02:20 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The situation for the majority of Jamaicans will never change,even if Jamaica should discover one hundred oil fields with millions of barrels of oil, it would mean little of no difference for the masses.Just like how we have a billion dollar tourist industry and a billion dollar financial sector yet the average Jamaican barely benefit from these sectors.Some Jamaicans like to compare Jamaica to Singapore,but the revered president of Singapore ,in a recent interview, stressed that few countries can attain what his country was able to accomplish .He said a countries<span style="font-weight: bold"> CULTURE</span> would determine whether the country succeed or fail.We already that Jamaicans culture evolved out of slavery and colonialism.To succeed our culture need to evolve from one where we put minority groups in charge of our financial future .

Groups like the PSOJ and JEA has been able to &quot;CAPTURE&quot; the state for the benefit of a few .Successive governments JLP AND PNP bent over backwards to accommodate these people, at the expense of the majority of Jamaicans.Even Seaga was amazed that BOTH political parties accepted the recent Matalon tax plan.

If Marcus Garvey couldn't get the people to open their eyes,i think no one will be able to .The culture of looking to Masa to guide us because, &quot;dem know how fe run business&quot; will never change, <span style="font-weight: bold">IF GARVEY COULDN'T DO IT ,I DONT KNOW WHO CAN.
</span>
</div></div>Garvey did not have the internet and cheap cell phones with text.
It is easier to get to the average Jamaican.
Especially with text to voice technology to communicate to the illiterate.
The illiterate will soon be as able to communicate with as much ease as the well educated.
All they have to do is to get an electronic reader with text to speech technology.
It is just a matter of time.

Panajar
01-09-2010, 02:27 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The situation for the majority of Jamaicans will never change,even if Jamaica should discover one hundred oil fields with millions of barrels of oil, it would mean little of no difference for the masses.Just like how we have a billion dollar tourist industry and a billion dollar financial sector yet the average Jamaican barely benefit from these sectors.Some Jamaicans like to compare Jamaica to Singapore,but the revered president of Singapore ,in a recent interview, stressed that few countries can attain what his country was able to accomplish .He said a countries<span style="font-weight: bold"> CULTURE</span> would determine whether the country succeed or fail.We already that Jamaicans culture evolved out of slavery and colonialism.To succeed our culture need to evolve from one where we put minority groups in charge of our financial future .

Groups like the PSOJ and JEA has been able to &quot;CAPTURE&quot; the state for the benefit of a few .Successive governments JLP AND PNP bent over backwards to accommodate these people, at the expense of the majority of Jamaicans.Even Seaga was amazed that BOTH political parties accepted the recent Matalon tax plan.

If Marcus Garvey couldn't get the people to open their eyes,i think no one will be able to .The culture of looking to Masa to guide us because, &quot;dem know how fe run business&quot; will never change, <span style="font-weight: bold">IF GARVEY COULDN'T DO IT ,I DONT KNOW WHO CAN.
</span>
</div></div>

You could have spared us... you said this before... http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

<span style="font-weight: bold">We</span> need &quot;new blood&quot; in a tired system..- </div></div>

i know its like beating a dead horse ,but everything else is <span style="font-weight: bold">band aid</span>.

britisha
01-09-2010, 03:04 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


You could have spared us... you said this before... http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

<span style="font-weight: bold">We</span> need &quot;new blood&quot; in a tired system..- </div></div>

i know its like beating a dead horse ,but everything else is <span style="font-weight: bold">band aid</span>.
</div></div>

THANKS FOR DI INPUT..

....NOW DAT YUH GOTT DAT OFFAH YUH CHESS, MEK DI CHRED BREATHE SOME FRESH AIR NOH? PUH-LEEZE AN TENK YUH !!!

SOME OF YOU HAVE BEEN IGNORED B/CAZZ OF DI SAME OLE TYAD RHETORIC, AMONG OTHER THINGS; BUT STILL FIND IT NECESSARY TO COME AND DERAIL PEOPLE'S CHRED AND THROW STONES, WIT THE SOLE INTENT OF HAVING IT CLOSED, DUE TO BADMINE AND BITTAHNISS...

NO BADDAH CUM MASH HUP DI NICE NICE CHREAD YA HEAR?

MODERATORS WHERE ARE YOU IN ALL THIS BAITING?????????


(((my people !!)))

johnnycakes
01-09-2010, 06:00 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The situation for the majority of Jamaicans will never change,even if Jamaica should discover one hundred oil fields with millions of barrels of oil, it would mean little of no difference for the masses.Just like how we have a billion dollar tourist industry and a billion dollar financial sector yet the average Jamaican barely benefit from these sectors.Some Jamaicans like to compare Jamaica to Singapore,but the revered president of Singapore ,in a recent interview, stressed that few countries can attain what his country was able to accomplish .He said a countries<span style="font-weight: bold"> CULTURE</span> would determine whether the country succeed or fail.We already that Jamaicans culture evolved out of slavery and colonialism.To succeed our culture need to evolve from one where we put minority groups in charge of our financial future .

Groups like the PSOJ and JEA has been able to &quot;CAPTURE&quot; the state for the benefit of a few .Successive governments JLP AND PNP bent over backwards to accommodate these people, at the expense of the majority of Jamaicans.Even Seaga was amazed that BOTH political parties accepted the recent Matalon tax plan.

If Marcus Garvey couldn't get the people to open their eyes,i think no one will be able to .The culture of looking to Masa to guide us because, &quot;dem know how fe run business&quot; will never change, <span style="font-weight: bold">IF GARVEY COULDN'T DO IT ,I DONT KNOW WHO CAN.
</span>
</div></div>


Thank you Panajar
Thank you Panajar
Thank you Panajar

A most refreshing post.

Do you not feel like a voice crying in the wilderness?

How is it you can see so clearly and state the case so precisely when so many, many others are blind and deaf to the these facts?

May I ask you for your favorite sources for socio-political information ?

britisha
01-09-2010, 06:34 PM
YAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNNNN !!! http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/proud_jamaica.gif



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I found the audio clips of Mr. Golding at his Constituency Conference saying what I think should be said to to all Jamaicans....not just his Constituents.

I will post them later after I upload them to YouTube. </div></div>

Would love to hear them/it TG...and you are so correck; it is NOT about partisanship, wi haffie cum bettah dan dat.



Mr. G is supposed to give a response this weekend or thereabouts according to the article, in the meantime...<span style="font-style: italic">mi noh like call hup call hup Jamaican politrixians names, if mi cyan help it</span> http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/cleanyuhmout.gif

britisha
01-09-2010, 07:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jobs go where there are skills as well as low pay.. We cannot comptete with china against low pay.. We can if we have skills... That is another matter.. Jamaicans worker imho once trained can compete against all comers any where on the planet. Then why cant Jamaica compete for jobs ???? Doc makes the point repeatedly that ther is a plan to keep black people down why low skill workers are brought in from Dom ep india or china.. I dont buy that... I have faced the same crisis of getting skilled workers in areas of high unemployment in China and in various locales in Africa.. Not the same but similar... India has just changed the visa laws to try and make specialist skills be recruited locally.. I get contract offers in India still....

As for my friends who migrate to killsome.. Had the skills been available in Killsome among the ghetto youth then why do they get the job ???

I note there is a tendency for the ghetto to be veiwed as socially static there is no movemnent in or out... How much of the population are actually third of fouth generation ??? How many nmove up and out ward... ???? If one gets the skills and the Heart program did give some youths these skills do they move on ??? Is the population of the ghetto increasing relative to the rest of the population ??? I am not wise enough or familiar enough with the idea of ghetto to answer.. but it strikes me that tehre are issues that have been tarred with a simplistic brush...
</div></div>

You are NOT the only one who is not wise enough nor familiar with the &quot;idea of &quot;ghetto&quot;...Years ago, no one spoke of &quot;ghetto/s&quot; in Jamaica, until the mass migration to North America...and being the copy cats that we are, as in many other instances, it has become a part of our jargon....wi copy every bless-ed thing, dung tuh guns and bullits to rahcolillie..

from Wiki: http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/dizzy.gif

<span style="font-family: 'Lucida Console'">Originally used in Venice to describe the area where<span style="font-weight: bold"> Jews were compelled to live,</span> a ghetto is now described as a &quot;portion of a city in which members of a minority group live; especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure.&quot;

The word &quot;ghetto&quot; actually comes from the word &quot;getto&quot; or &quot;gheto&quot;, which means slag in Venetian, and was used in this sense in a reference to a foundry where slag was stored located on the same island as the area of Jewish confinement.[2] An alternative etymology is from Italian borghetto, diminutive of borgo ‘borough’.[3]

The corresponding German term was Judengasse<span style="font-weight: bold"> (lit. Jew's Lane) known as the Jewish Quarter.</span>

The corresponding German term was Judengasse (lit. Jew's Lane) known as the Jewish Quarter.</span>

Now that that hair splitting is out the way....it is very easy to see how we are quick to internalise anything and everything without reference[s] to the history and so on and so on....even assimilating the word that was NOT descriptive of anything/one black, much less Jamaican and heng aawn tuh it for dear life....most likely out of stupidity and wikkidniss genst our own<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Jamaicans worker imho once trained can compete against all comers any where on the planet. Then why cant Jamaica compete for jobs ????</div></div>

edited to say, it is Jamaicans vs Jamaica...good point....your reference to low wages does make sense, but I am also inclined to think that the negative image that is reflected on the entire nation is definitely another stumbling block in our way..

Where are the opportunities for poorer Jamaicans to become self-actualized?..since this is the path that the thread is veering tuh.

britisha
01-09-2010, 07:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is also home to the shacks, slums and dilapidated buildings of several depressed communities -- many of which are deeply divided based on their affiliation with one or the other of the two major political parties, the People's National Party (PNP) or the JLP.<span style="font-weight: bold">

It is this division, according to several people to whom the Sunday Observer spoke, that is preventing development and holding the communities back.</span>

Further downtown, in the West Kingston arcade, vendors complain of low sales, ostensibly caused by the competition of vendors on the streets, and the facility's deteriorating conditions.

&quot;The arcade want to be fixed because we are wetting up in here,&quot; said one vendor. &quot;It nuh just ah leak, it ah wash weh. Yuh know how much pair ah shoes mi haffi dash weh odder day. Mi cover di box but neva know seh it nuh cover properly 'til two days after when mi go fi unload di box.&quot;

&quot;We have no proper lighting and it needs a power wash because in here have rats,&quot; another woman says.

Sales are so slow, says Ann McKenzie who lives in the Maxfield Park area, that she has been camping out in the arcade for three weeks now.

&quot;I don't go home from week before last Wednesday. I have to stay here to see if I can get a sale in the early morning or during the night. We have to sleep and watch just fi mek ends meet,&quot; she says, adding that the &quot;majority&quot; of her colleagues camp out as well.</div></div>

IMHO, this is the beef, the main theme in the article...politrixxians &quot;patiality&quot; as mi modda wuddah seh, and deplorable conditions for those who are willing to be entrepreneurs.

Higglering, ie buying and selling has been going on for eons as far back as *I* can remember...many of those who are big store owners, were higglers who sold out of their cars until they could establish themselves better, and these were not black Jamaicans...In places like Nigeria &quot;market Mamas&quot; [our equivalent of Ja higglers} are among some of the richest folks in the country..


Point being, we know that there are NO jobs so to speak...mek wi sekkle pan dat...and we also know that there are thousands of higglers in town and odda parts of di island...wi sekkle pan dat as well...what *I* am saying is, business is bad, because:

[a] the conditions under which they do their business are deplorable and squalid, coupled wid harassment from Babylon..[cyaan' leff dat hout]

(b)...even if there are a million of them, [entrepreneurs] they would be able to at least break even; <span style="font-weight: bold"> and have an incentive to continue... IF THEY HAD MORE CUSTOMERS TO &quot;PATRONISE&quot; THEM</span>...but considering the ugly CONDITIONS under which they ply their trade/ sell their wares...most people, downtowners, uptowners and TOURISTS will think twice before they set foot in those areas to patronize them.

The piece mentioned &quot;Coronation Market&quot;..a place where I used to run hup and dung as a girl, [it also mentioned &quot;slums&quot; by the way] http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif and which was the mecca for bizniz aah Kingston...things were bad then from what I can remember, but rat infestation was NEVER A PROBLEM; AND NOW APPARENTLY IT IS.



Wha mek the politrixians noh kill two birds wid wan stone by:


[a]providing jobs for the clean up crew to revitalise the markets/arcades, and indirectly the city and:

<span style="font-weight: bold"> provide an atmosphere that is conducive to people feeling free and welcome to COME spend their money with those who want to be independent?</span>


Is that too much to ask?

<span style="font-weight: bold">MONEY MEK DI MARE RUN</span>...IF NOH MONEY NAAH TURN OVAH A Kingston, A MOVE FRAM HAND TO HAND IN COMMERCE, it noh mek noh sense..No economy can survive without <span style="font-weight: bold">consumer spending</span>...and that is the litmus test that economists use to test how well or poorly a nation is doing..so when wi denying some citizens basic rights and freedom to spite them, we are also cutting our nose to spite our ownah face, only that we can't see in the http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/dizzy.gif mirror...

Soh chatting bout Marcus Garvey whey ded an gaawn fram when, [due respeck to Marcus] haff nutt'n fi duh wid di discussion, or chatting bout di di fact that we were slaves 400 odd donkey years ago, is a waste of band with and haff nutt'n fi duh wid di discussion at hand eidah...why live in the past???

This is the year 2010 not 1848, wi haff self-govahment..which many Jamaicans fought for... Jamaica is tooo set in it's ways as mi seet fi benefit from oddah people's model right now..we are too unique fi pattern aniboddiee else shengeleh.. [wha good fi di goose might juss bi sauce fi did gander]and IMO dat nat gwine solve nutt'n, nat gwine cut di mustawd.. hiff the government don't take matters into it's hands and govern like it should.


So we are back to the question, can WE [Jack Manadorah} an the POLY-trixians fuggadahbout our tribalistic approach to politics and heal the nation before it finally keel ovah dead?


A diss mi a chry fi know.

Well mi tyad fi heddit dis due tuh di bolding and di like...

Dr.Dudd
01-09-2010, 07:51 PM
<span style="font-style: italic">Jobs go where there are skills as well as low pay.. </span>

Jobs does not necessary go where there is low pay, as it goes where ther is no workers rights.
As long as ther is very little or no workers rights.
And ther is no union rights, business will gravitate to there.

They avoid places with minimum wage,right to work, safety rules that are monitored, and other workers rights.

barosa
01-11-2010, 04:37 AM
Britisha, I know that this thread is about West Kingston and I suspect it's because it happens to be the PM's constituency. But when I think of Yaawd, I'm guilty like many others who think of the island as a whole rather than a specific location... However, as a Kingstonian, I can relate to that area as well as the wider region because I used to know it well...

Comments and suggestions are many, even name calling and the attribution of blame to go around is understandable but I gather you would rather have &quot;solutions&quot; which seems very difficult to come by. It's no easy feat to address the plight of the poor and downtrodden of any area in old Kgn, let alone West Kgn where the task is monumental... The accumulated NEGLECT of the past seems to have caught up with us, meanining our Governments past and current who never really cared, DID NOTHING while their citizens suffered.

We the people of the diaspora can only help from a distance by suggestions which may or may not be considered because words alone are not enough to create jobs or put food on the table. In the final analysis, the power to do what is neccessary resides with the Government of the day to do what they can. If they have the cajones to do what may seem to be impossible given the limited resources available to them, maybe some could be helped... It's not a pretty scenario, but hopefully if there is a will, there is a way...
_____________________________

It's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game.

jah_yout
01-11-2010, 11:46 AM
true words, barosa;

my feeling is that 'jobs' alone is not the answer...(that culture word someone brought up is in my head again)...
there will never be 100% employment and economists freely admit that; so my question is, if- let's say- 6% is an &quot;acceptable&quot; unemployment rate, then how are those 6% supposed to live?
in other words the gov't has already decided that a certain percentage of the population is expendable;
it has to go deeper than just 'jobs' given the scarcity of this right now &amp; in the foreseeable future...
if people can't even find jobs in big america, what will happen to jamaica?
what is needed is new &amp; creative outlooks in leadership...
but i'm afraid this will be very difficult with our imperial neighbor to the north who only has an interest in keeping their weaker neighbors as farm colonies for cheap materials &amp; labor and a ready market for over-priced exports...
challenge this reality and there will be vengeance...
see cuba

britisha
01-11-2010, 11:53 PM
Will try to get to this prolly manana...meantime thanks for the responses.

johnnycakes
01-12-2010, 03:03 PM
[quote=jah_yout]true words, barosa;

my feeling is that 'jobs' alone is not the answer...(that culture word someone brought up is in my head again)...
there will never be 100% employment and economists freely admit that; so my question is, if- let's say- 6% is an &quot;acceptable&quot; unemployment rate, then how are those 6% supposed to live?
in other words the gov't has already decided that a certain percentage of the population is expendable;
it has to go deeper than just 'jobs' given the scarcity of this right now &amp; in the foreseeable future...
if people can't even find jobs in big america, what will happen to jamaica?
what is needed is new &amp; creative outlooks in leadership...
but i'm afraid this will be very difficult with our imperial neighbor to the north who only has an interest in keeping their weaker neighbors as farm colonies for cheap materials &amp; labor and a ready market for over-priced exports...
challenge this reality and there will be vengeance...
see cuba [/quote

As usual, well said, jah_yout,

&quot;New and creative outlooks in leadership&quot;?
Where do you see this coming from? I would think not the PNP or JLP but then from where?
It's pretty much established that while the Jamaican people are reasonably upset with the social, economic and political situations, they are not looking toward anything that a reasonable person would consider new and creative.
Like him or not Michael Manley was someone you could consider new and creative but as now, the Jamaican people did not want change and rushed back to Seaga's brand of conservative pro-capitalist economics.

There are many ideas which the nearby Cuban revolution could provide Jamaicans in fixing serious problems even without a real revolution but under Jamaican capitalism and a political system locked into the status quo , the funds would never be made available.

As for jobs, the U.S. is the economic powerhouse and is experiencing real unemployment of around 20%. Jamaica far less prosperous so what chance does it have of full employment? The economy can support just so many higglers, the tourist and bauxite industries can only employ so many. What low skill jobs there were or may be are being taken by the low paid workers of Asia, thanks to the miracle of globalization.
Not only are things not better than they were, the opportunities for the Jamaican worker educated or unskilled are very limited and is just a race to the bottom for both wages and standards of living for the workers.

Read the posts. They are full of &quot;we have to do something&quot;, &quot;We need new leaders&quot;, &quot;We need better schools and lots more living wage job&quot;, &quot;We need to end corruptions&quot; &quot; If we could just......(fill in the blank)&quot;, &quot;if they would only.....(fill in the blank&quot; .

See the following for an example of this.

Originally Posted By: TonyRoyal
Dr D.
Jamaica is like a company that goes to the bank year after year borrowing money and still not producing any worthwhile product! Eventually it goes Bankrupt. Since 1962 we have been exporting the same things! We can't even feed ourselves!
A country must be able to feed itself, educate it's people and provide top class care! Jamaica don't need the IMF. Wealth comes from within!
We need a STRONG no non-sense leader with Vision. One who will implement what I stated above.

What you stated above is essentially true but it's not new. Similar sentiments have been expressed on these boards eons ago and still our beloved Jamaica has remained mired in a state of economic slippage and decadence... We have debated the &quot;strong leadership with vision&quot; and even a &quot;benevolent dictatorship&quot; as opposed to the current democratic system in place, but guess what! Nothing has changed except that the situation has worsened...

Because we have already covered so much inclusive of what you have stated above, we are holding out hope that you can come up with proposals, &quot;new and untried&quot; that could become a catalyst in turning Jamaica around... One can never tell what secrets lurk in the hearts of men and in your case, we wait with baited breath... Tony, we welcome your constructive contribution, nothing more...
________________________

&quot;At a time of universal deceit,&quot; wrote George Orwell, &quot;telling the truth is a revolutionary act.&quot;............................................. ........................................




Like all third and fourth marriages it is an expression of hope over experience.

The jobs aren't coming.
The politicians and others will remain corrupted.
Jamaica will not get a much better infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads.
etc).
Underdevelopment will be an eternal curse.
The more things change the more they will remain the same.

Think about it: the American people are supposed to be (just ask them) better educated and better informed than are their counterparts in Jamaica and elsewhere in the Third World yet they get fooled into electing the Bushes and Obamas despite the records of both parties.
The Jamaican people are apparently no better informed and are no better at the election process than are the genius Americans.

It might be because like most Americans, Jamaicans believe what they are told by &quot;their&quot; government and &quot;their&quot; media; things like &quot; There is no viable alternative to either the economic system as it stands&quot; and &quot;There is no possible or better alternative to the hopelessly corrupted electoral system.&quot;
and the biggest lie of all &quot;Give us another chance. We can fix things&quot;





The

Wahalla
01-13-2010, 01:27 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jobs go where there are skills as well as low pay.. We cannot comptete with china against low pay.. We can if we have skills... That is another matter.. Jamaicans worker imho once trained can compete against all comers any where on the planet. Then why cant Jamaica compete for jobs ???? Doc makes the point repeatedly that ther is a plan to keep black people down why low skill workers are brought in from Dom ep india or china.. I dont buy that... I have faced the same crisis of getting skilled workers in areas of high unemployment in China and in various locales in Africa.. Not the same but similar... India has just changed the visa laws to try and make specialist skills be recruited locally.. I get contract offers in India still....

As for my friends who migrate to killsome.. Had the skills been available in Killsome among the ghetto youth then why do they get the job ???

I note there is a tendency for the ghetto to be veiwed as socially static there is no movemnent in or out... How much of the population are actually third of fouth generation ??? How many nmove up and out ward... ???? If one gets the skills and the Heart program did give some youths these skills do they move on ??? Is the population of the ghetto increasing relative to the rest of the population ??? I am not wise enough or familiar enough with the idea of ghetto to answer.. but it strikes me that tehre are issues that have been tarred with a simplistic brush...
</div></div>

You are NOT the only one who is not wise enough nor familiar with the &quot;idea of &quot;ghetto&quot;...Years ago, no one spoke of &quot;ghetto/s&quot; in Jamaica, until the mass migration to North America...and being the copy cats that we are, as in many other instances, it has become a part of our jargon....wi copy every bless-ed thing, dung tuh guns and bullits to rahcolillie..

from Wiki: http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/dizzy.gif

<span style="font-family: 'Lucida Console'">Originally used in Venice to describe the area where<span style="font-weight: bold"> Jews were compelled to live,</span> a ghetto is now described as a &quot;portion of a city in which members of a minority group live; especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure.&quot;

The word &quot;ghetto&quot; actually comes from the word &quot;getto&quot; or &quot;gheto&quot;, which means slag in Venetian, and was used in this sense in a reference to a foundry where slag was stored located on the same island as the area of Jewish confinement.[2] An alternative etymology is from Italian borghetto, diminutive of borgo ‘borough’.[3]

The corresponding German term was Judengasse<span style="font-weight: bold"> (lit. Jew's Lane) known as the Jewish Quarter.</span>

The corresponding German term was Judengasse (lit. Jew's Lane) known as the Jewish Quarter.</span>

Now that that hair splitting is out the way....it is very easy to see how we are quick to internalise anything and everything without reference[s] to the history and so on and so on....even assimilating the word that was NOT descriptive of anything/one black, much less Jamaican and heng aawn tuh it for dear life....most likely out of stupidity and wikkidniss genst our own<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Jamaicans worker imho once trained can compete against all comers any where on the planet. Then why cant Jamaica compete for jobs ????</div></div>

edited to say, it is Jamaicans vs Jamaica...good point....your reference to low wages does make sense, but I am also inclined to think that the negative image that is reflected on the entire nation is definitely another stumbling block in our way..

Where are the opportunities for poorer Jamaicans to become self-actualized?..since this is the path that the thread is veering tuh.


</div></div>

Naw i thought I had written &quot;so called ghetto&quot; somewhere in here.... The idea of an economic ghetto, sink communities that absorbed those whho have fallen through the economic cracks rather than a racially... That is the common term for these sink community.. Lest you think I am unaware of its history::::: Here is my chance to shine:::

Out of the Italian jewish ghettos two of the most western powerful baisc drivers developed c concepts of the 20th and 21st centuary grew.... The idea of banks, (it comes from the itlain term Banco::: benches that the jews sat on who lent money... Jews were banned from all professions except te one proffesions that baned to christians (by papal decree), lending of money (sin of upsury).... The ghettos of italy financed both the papal states, the lomardiees, the wars, the reconquista, the voages of Henry the navigator, the art of italy.. they were the financiers of the renaciance....(Actually I was around when the use of the term went into use. art literature and science flourished.. the itlaina ghetto were a link, a conduit between the reserves of knowleged that resided in the arabic and medival europe. Not only was money transmitted between families but also ideas.

and the entire basis of western science came out of tjhe jewish ghettos of itlay::::: the use of sancrit numbers system was transfered to europe via these ghettos .. ..The whole of western technological/scientific base came out of the ventian ghettos because of this transition from roman numerals took place there ... Thast just me poving I understand the historical context of ghettos.. That is not just an idea of poverty, so from an histroical context ghetto as a sink community is a lie.. However once Hilter developed the kill zones of Warsaw, Vilnus, et al then to use the term in the Jamaican context beggars beleif... unless there are people who see the poor as simply a problem to kill...


But my concenrn is that there is little analysis of the mobility into and out of the ghettos...

Tuff Gong
01-13-2010, 05:18 PM
I think I better start over.
This thread has attracted the usual collection of mentally challenged posters who know absolutely zero about what they are talking about. They don't follow the local Jamaican news, their impression of Jamaica largely formed from the texts of bellicose rants of one Micheal Menlie and his willing acolytes, who are eternally pledged to his goal of fanning the flames of racial hatred in Jamaica, to ensure that we are poor, hungry and bare feet, with a permanent begging bowl thrust out to the world.
After this I will post the words that Mr. Golding should tell not only his Constituents but all of Jamaica:

First we have to separate Mr. Golding time from Mr. Seaga time because:

A. he was completely out of representational politics and had absolutely no machinery.

B. He just took over two years ago and has no finally admitted what many of us suspected that the Ponzi scheme ran by the Comrades has now crashed and Jamaica for the first time face a default in paying out debts to the Shylock's.

C. The JLP changed the previous system where there was a pool of funds called from which the more powerful MHRs from either side could suck money from to fund whatever they like in their Constituencies. No there is a set amount and you have to present a plan to get a draw down.

to be continued.....

johnnycakes
01-13-2010, 05:50 PM
Alright Tuffy !,

At last you've returned to clear up the muddle.
Please clear this all up for us weak minded souls.
Tell us how the JLP or the PNP can make Jamaica the new Singapore.

No impossible propositions now, like getting honest politicians who will truly represent the needs of the Jamaican working man. You have to be serious.
And none of that trickle-down economic stuff either. You know, give all the tax breaks and money to the private sector and they'll create jobs to employ every Jamaican who wants a job.
Didn't work in the United States, did it?

Anyway welcome back.

Let's have it.

daniellle
01-15-2010, 10:47 PM
agree wid Tuff on diz one.. lets see wat future bringz..

britisha
01-16-2010, 01:02 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I better start over.
This thread has attracted the usual collection of mentally challenged posters who know absolutely zero about what they are talking about. They don't follow the local Jamaican news, their impression of Jamaica largely formed from the texts of bellicose rants of one Micheal Menlie and his willing acolytes, who are eternally pledged to his goal of fanning the flames of racial hatred in Jamaica, to ensure that we are poor, hungry and bare feet, with a permanent begging bowl thrust out to the world.
After this I will post the words that Mr. Golding should tell not only his Constituents but all of Jamaica:

First we have to separate Mr. Golding time from Mr. Seaga time because:

A. he was completely out of representational politics and had absolutely no machinery.

B. He just took over two years ago and has no finally admitted what many of us suspected that the Ponzi scheme ran by the Comrades has now crashed and Jamaica for the first time face a default in paying out debts to the Shylock's.

C. The JLP changed the previous system where there was a pool of funds called from which the more powerful MHRs from either side could suck money from to fund whatever they like in their Constituencies. No there is a set amount and you have to present a plan to get a draw down.

to be continued..... </div></div>

...but YOU don't get it TG !!!


This thread is neither about Mr Seaga NOR Mr. Golding...

johnnycakes
01-17-2010, 07:36 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: daniellle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">agree wid Tuff on diz one.. lets see wat future bringz.. </div></div>

I thought about this and wondered what possible change for the better can the future bring if none of the problems that are currently plaguing Jamaica are addressed at their base.
Jamaicans are unwilling to change either the corrupt two-party electoral system or the neo-liberal capitalist economic system.
All of Jamaica's problems are tied up with these two institutions.

You KNOW what will happen because it is what Jamaicans do. They will vote out the PNP when things get bad enough, thinking that in some miraculous fashion the JLP will make things better.
Then when things don't change or perhaps even get worse, the Jamaican people will vote out the JLP and vote in the PNP until things don't get better then they'll vote the JLP back in.

We Americans do the same thing.

That's how we got a Muslim, non-US born, socialist who was going to change things as president in the Benighted States.

See how different things are?


Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results each time is a definition of insanity and obviously very much still in fashion.

britisha
01-17-2010, 11:00 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Britisha, I know that this thread is about West Kingston and I suspect it's because it happens to be the PM's constituency. But when I think of Yaawd, I'm guilty like many others who think of the island as a whole rather than a specific location... However, as a Kingstonian, I can relate to that area as well as the wider region because I used to know it well...

Comments and suggestions are many, even name calling and the attribution of blame to go around is understandable but I gather you would rather have &quot;solutions&quot; which seems very difficult to come by. It's no easy feat to address the plight of the poor and downtrodden of any area in old Kgn, let alone West Kgn where the task is monumental... The accumulated NEGLECT of the past seems to have caught up with us, meanining our Governments past and current who never really cared, DID NOTHING while their citizens suffered.

We the people of the diaspora can only help from a distance by suggestions which may or may not be considered because words alone are not enough to create jobs or put food on the table.<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 20pt"> In the final analysis, the power to do what is<span style="font-style: italic"> necessary</span> resides with the Government of the day to do what they can.</span></span> If they have the cajones to do what may seem to be impossible given the limited resources available to them, maybe some could be helped... It's not a pretty scenario, but hopefully if there is a will, there is a way...
_____________________________

It's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. </div></div>

...and therein lies a part of the answer in the part I highlighted above in your post Barosa. Obviously these govahments were not doing all that they can/could.

britisha
01-17-2010, 11:04 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">true words, barosa;

my feeling is that 'jobs' alone is not the answer...(that culture word someone brought up is in my head again)...
there will never be 100% employment and economists freely admit that; so my question is, if- let's say- 6% is an &quot;acceptable&quot; unemployment rate, then how are those 6% supposed to live?
in other words the gov't has already decided that a certain percentage of the population is expendable;
it has to go deeper than just 'jobs' given the scarcity of this right now &amp; in the foreseeable future...
if people can't even find jobs in big america, what will happen to jamaica?
what is needed is new &amp; creative outlooks in leadership...
but i'm afraid this will be very difficult with our imperial neighbor to the north who only has an interest in keeping their weaker neighbors as farm colonies for cheap materials &amp; labor and a ready market for over-priced exports...
challenge this reality and there will be vengeance...
see cuba </div></div>

...all this could be interpreted in so many ways...nothing tangible to hold on to here..eg &quot;a new creative outlook in leadership&quot; could mean something different to each of the leading political parties...food for thought though.

britisha
01-17-2010, 11:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I better start over.
This thread has attracted the usual collection of mentally challenged posters who know absolutely zero about what they are talking about. They don't follow the local Jamaican news, their impression of Jamaica largely formed from the texts of bellicose rants of one Micheal Menlie and his willing acolytes, who are eternally pledged to his goal of fanning the flames of racial hatred in Jamaica, to ensure that we are poor, hungry and bare feet, with a permanent begging bowl thrust out to the world.
After this I will post the words that Mr. Golding should tell not only his Constituents but all of Jamaica:

First we have to separate Mr. Golding time from Mr. Seaga time because:

A. he was completely out of representational politics and had absolutely no machinery.

B. He just took over two years ago and has no finally admitted what many of us suspected that the Ponzi scheme ran by the Comrades has now crashed and Jamaica for the first time face a default in paying out debts to the Shylock's.

C. The JLP changed the previous system where there was a pool of funds called from which the more powerful MHRs from either side could suck money from to fund whatever they like in their Constituencies. No there is a set amount and you have to present a plan to get a draw down.

to be continued..... </div></div>

TG, yah know, I already gave a comment on this, but *I* must give it to you...you have a way of saying things, and if for nothing else I find this though unrelated to the thread, quite thought provoking as well. ***chukkle**

So hantil now, nobaddie noh answah mi kwestian, if wi can put aside political difference, and UNITE under our flag [an in so doing, noh haffie spite one group etc] for the welfare of our nation..

Hint:...I can only see this coming from a philosophical MORAL approach as to what constitutes a government and how it should behave in fulfilling it's role in service to the people. Everything else is 2ndary to this.

johnnycakes
01-18-2010, 09:51 AM
.&quot;.all this could be interpreted in so many ways...nothing tangible to hold on to here..eg &quot;a new creative outlook in leadership&quot; could mean something different to each of the leading political parties...food for thought though.&quot;
Barosa,
Britisha picked up on a very pertinent aspect in the post above.
As in the United States the problem in coming up with &quot;a new creative outlook in leadership &quot; really means going against both of the political parties in power.
As in the States, the Jamaicans can really only elect the people that the two parties put up.
The main body, the overwhelming majority of both parties want and need the parties' philosophies to remain pretty much what they have always been since independence. It's what they know and what they like. &quot;New creative&quot; is scary to a lot of people. To those in power in means a tangible threat to their wealth and power, To the basically disinformed electorate it just means something different, something strange something the media and those in power keep telling them they do not want, it's too radical etc. So they vote against their own interests and put in the same politicians they always have and then complain to the heavens that the government.

Of course you can't get &quot;a new creative outlook&quot; from parties that are locked into the system as is. Any candidate like Obama in the United States who rises to the top of one of the two business parties simply CANNOT be anyone very different from the main body of the party. He/she would not get the backing of most of his/her own party.
Witness Manley, Witness Obama in the States.
Look what happened to the president of Honduras-he got &quot;new and creative&quot; and his own party took part in the coup d'etat against him for his &quot;new creative outlook&quot;.

It is what it is
It looks like it will be as it is for the foreseeable future given what I have said is true...(IMO)
.

britisha
02-05-2010, 02:13 PM
bum fuhr mi noh dun widdiss yet. http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/tapfoot2.gif

britisha
02-12-2010, 10:54 PM
Use dah chred yah fi bawl hout http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/70394-bawlout.gif WAIEEEEE http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/images/smilies/70394-bawlout.gif

Suh dere is no coming togeddah mongst dah ranks heh?

Wahalla
02-13-2010, 08:22 AM
Unlike JY I think jobs are the fundamental issue.... compared to other nations I bleieve Jamaicans have a stronger more adaptive sense of self... I belive from a cultural perspective too much energy is expended in survival, and not enough in thinking.. Once fed, clothed, educated then more energy can be expended in the cultural regime. At the moment I think as unpopular as this may be alot of Jamaican effort is expended on the cultural regime than on the basics.

I include the culture of dancehall in fact though i dont enjoy it I bleive there is alot of investment is made in this regime, one would suspect a greater amount of money than in say schools or even heatlh care....

britisha
02-14-2010, 10:31 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unlike JY I think jobs are the fundamental issue.... compared to other nations I bleieve Jamaicans have a stronger more adaptive sense of self... I belive from a cultural perspective too much energy is expended in survival, and not enough in thinking.. Once fed, clothed, educated then more energy can be expended in the cultural regime. At the moment I think as unpopular as this may be alot of Jamaican effort is expended on the cultural regime than on the basics.

I include the culture of dancehall in fact though i dont enjoy it I bleive there is alot of investment is made in this regime, one would suspect a greater amount of money than in say schools or even heatlh care.... </div></div>

A very intneresting response Wallie, thanks.